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[AceSV]

It struck me as odd that Ni has such a low value and is basically useless in Dwarf Fortress.  I've always thought that Nickel was pretty similar to Iron, which was used for weapons.  Nickel seems to have a lot of the same material properties as iron. 

Of course, medieval weaponsmiths didn't use nickel, but that's partially because it wasn't chemically "discovered" until 1751, perhaps because the largest deposits are in Canada, Australia, Siberia and the Pacific Ocean, where there weren't a lot of knights or samurai to try it out.  Even though Nickel wasn't purposely extracted or utilized until after DF's 1400 tech limit, it doesn't seem to require any advanced processes like Aluminum, Titanium or Tungsten do. 

I can't tell if pure nickel would be suitable for a sword blade.  Nobody makes knives out of it, but they do use nickel in modern "damascus" replica swords like this one.  Nickel Steel is a better than normal steel, and nickel is used to make a number of modern "super alloys".  I used to sell knives that have a nickel-silver alloy (Ni-Ag, not the nickel silver that's in DF) which the manufacturers told me was the most wear-resistant material you can find. 


Anyone have any more data on Nickel? 

[evictedSaint]

I am instantly reminded of:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NICKEL IS BEST METAL.  BETTER THAN STEEL AND BETTER THAN IRON.

[Putnam]

In-game, Nickel's tensile strength is 20 MPa. This makes it weaker than iron, silver, gold and copper. It's stress/strain is pretty good, as its stress/strain values are indeed fairly similar to iron's (nickel has 180 GPa bulk modulus, 200 GPa young's modulus and 76 GPa shear modulus while iron has 170, 211 and 82). However, its lack of ultimate tensile strength makes it pretty bad.

Basically, it's just as rigid as iron, but it'll break much, much easier.

[Eldin00]

Pure nickel has very similar hardness, strength, electrical, and magnetic properties to iron and would probably be roughly as good for making blades (still much inferior to steel). Various nickel alloys are widely used in modern times. And even though nickel hadn't been identified as a separate metal yet, the Chinese were using a copper-nickel alloy, possibly as early as 120BCE, which went by several names, including white copper and white bronze. The greeks used copper-nickel alloy to make coins, and it has been speculated that the metal the greeks called orichalcum may have been an alloy containing copper, nickel, and other metals. Today, Cu-Ni alloy is used for coinage because of its excellent wear resistance, and as an alternative to steel in marine applications because of its resistance to corrosion and biofouling. Engineering data for a 70%Cu-30%Ni alloy puts it as noticeably harder and stronger than Iron, silvery in color, but not quite as hard or strong as a typical carbon steel. Most nickel alloys work harden, but with the exception of nickel-steels most do not gain hardness from heat treatment.

Nickel in the DF raws has inferior properties to real-world nickel.

Here's a raw entry for 70-30 cupronickel, based off of published engineering data for the alloy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[INORGANIC:CUPRONICKEL]
 NAME:white copper ADJ:white copper COLOR:7:3:0
[MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
[SPEC_HEAT:377] from data sheet for 70/30 cupronickel alloy
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:white copper]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten white copper]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling white copper]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:3:0]
[BUILD_COLOR:7:3:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
[SPEC_HEAT:400]
[MELTING_POINT:12168]  from data sheet for 70/30 cupronickel alloy
[BOILING_POINT:14611]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR][ITEMS_ANVIL]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[ITEMS_METAL]
[SOLID_DENSITY:8930]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:8020]
[MOLAR_MASS:62333] 
[IMPACT_YIELD:269500]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:847000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:192]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:269500]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:847000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:192]
[TENSILE_YIELD:210000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:660000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:174]
[TORSION_YIELD:210000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:660000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:377]
[SHEAR_YIELD:210000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:660000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:377] 
[BENDING_YIELD:210000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:660000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:174]
[MAX_EDGE:10000]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:SILVER]


[taptap]

It struck me as odd that Ni has such a low value and is basically useless in Dwarf Fortress.

Value is only for the stuff you sell to other people. The best things in DF such as lead minecarts, sheep wool socks, garnierite mechanisms ... all have low base value.

[AceSV]

I am instantly reminded of:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NICKEL IS BEST METAL.  BETTER THAN STEEL AND BETTER THAN IRON.

If I was going to do that, it would be about Tungsten.  That shit's the best metal. 

Pure nickel has very similar hardness, strength, electrical, and magnetic properties to iron and would probably be roughly as good for making blades (still much inferior to steel). Various nickel alloys are widely used in modern times. And even though nickel hadn't been identified as a separate metal yet, the Chinese were using a copper-nickel alloy, possibly as early as 120BCE, which went by several names, including white copper and white bronze. The greeks used copper-nickel alloy to make coins, and it has been speculated that the metal the greeks called orichalcum may have been an alloy containing copper, nickel, and other metals. Today, Cu-Ni alloy is used for coinage because of its excellent wear resistance, and as an alternative to steel in marine applications because of its resistance to corrosion and biofouling. Engineering data for a 70%Cu-30%Ni alloy puts it as noticeably harder and stronger than Iron, silvery in color, but not quite as hard or strong as a typical carbon steel. Most nickel alloys work harden, but with the exception of nickel-steels most do not gain hardness from heat treatment.

Nickel in the DF raws has inferior properties to real-world nickel.

Here's a raw entry for 70-30 cupronickel, based off of published engineering data for the alloy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[INORGANIC:CUPRONICKEL]
 NAME:white copper ADJ:white copper COLOR:7:3:0
[MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
[SPEC_HEAT:377] from data sheet for 70/30 cupronickel alloy
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:white copper]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten white copper]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling white copper]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:3:0]
[BUILD_COLOR:7:3:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
[SPEC_HEAT:400]
[MELTING_POINT:12168]  from data sheet for 70/30 cupronickel alloy
[BOILING_POINT:14611]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR][ITEMS_ANVIL]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[ITEMS_METAL]
[SOLID_DENSITY:8930]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:8020]
[MOLAR_MASS:62333] 
[IMPACT_YIELD:269500]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:847000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:192]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:269500]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:847000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:192]
[TENSILE_YIELD:210000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:660000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:174]
[TORSION_YIELD:210000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:660000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:377]
[SHEAR_YIELD:210000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:660000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:377] 
[BENDING_YIELD:210000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:660000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:174]
[MAX_EDGE:10000]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:SILVER]


Do you know how to translate real-world material properties into DF material properties?  I'd love to just take some technical data for various alloys and drop them into Dwarf Fortress for lulz. 

[Putnam]

I have a program that does that automatically for you:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140645.msg5475264#msg5475264

Basically, at least for vanilla materials:

TENSILE_YIELD is ultimate tensile strength in KPa

COMPRESSIVE_YIELD and IMPACT_YIELD are TENSILE_YIELD*3.5

All other YIELD values are exactly TENSILE_YIELD's value

FRACTURE values are all exactly twice YIELD values

STRAIN_AT_YIELD values are YIELD value divided by relevant stress/strain modulus (noted in the raws); stress/strain modulus is measured here in 10ths of gigapascals.

[sneakey pete]

Like many metals, they only get good when you alloy them with the right amount of other metals.

[Zarathustra30]

Even though I can never find copper, I am cribbing the raws anyway.

By the way, why are MATERIAL_VALUE and SPEC_HEAT listed twice?

Edit: In case people are really lazy, here are the reactions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:CUPRONICKEL_MAKING]
[NAME:make white copper bars (use ore)]
[BUILDING:SMELTER:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:METAL_ORE:NICKEL]
[REAGENT:B:1:METAL_ORE:COPPER]
[PRODUCT:100:8:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:CUPRONICKEL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:SMELT]

[REACTION:CUPRONICKEL_MAKING2]
[NAME:make white copper bars (use bars)]
[BUILDING:SMELTER:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:NICKEL]
[REAGENT:B:300:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER]
[PRODUCT:100:3:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:CUPRONICKEL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:SMELT]


67-33 cupronickel is close enough.

[Eldin00]

Even though I can never find copper, I am cribbing the raws anyway.

By the way, why are MATERIAL_VALUE and SPEC_HEAT listed twice?

Because I originally copied the material from someone else's mod for it which had guesses for a lot of the values (and used 75-25 cupronickel, which is the standard for making coins) and when I was updating it to real values for 70-30 (a more common engineering grade) I left some old values in by mistake. MATERIAL_VALUE you can make whatever seems right to you, but SPEC_HEAT should be 377.

And your reaction for making it from bars looks exactly like mine, but for making from ore, it should probably take 2 copper ore + 1 nickel ore instead of one of each. Otherwise ,you're really modeling a 50-50 alloy, which isn't widely used and which I do not have any data on.

[Zarathustra30]

I based it off of the other reactions in the file where many, such as bronze, use 50-50.

[Eldin00]

Bronze at least uses 1 copper + 1 tin = 2 bronze for making from bars, so the bars reaction and ore reaction are the same ratio. Haven't looked at all of the different reactions that can use ore.

edit--
A quick read through reaction_smelter.txt reveals that ore reactions do in fact use the same ratios as bar reactions. Look at the reactions for the pewters.

[Eldin00]

Actually, on the topic of using correct ratios in DF metallurgy, a 50/50 ratio is way inaccurate for bronze. Bronze age bronzes were pretty inconsistent, but usually in the vicinity of 10% tin, and almost always under 20%. A more realistic bronze reaction would be along the lines of 7 copper + 1 tin for 8 bronze bars for 12.5% tin. Modern bronze is typically 12%. 12.5% is both close to the modern alloy and within the range (albeit slightly higher than typical) that was common during the bronze age.

[Henny]

I will put a +cat bone bolt+ in those who deny that calcium is the best metal.

[evictedSaint]

I will put a +cat bone bolt+ in those who deny that calcium is the best metal.

Um, no??? 

Obviously Nickel is best metal, have you even been reading this thread?