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[4maskwolf]

I've been thinking, and it seems like there isn't a way to get around the scumteam's advantages in this game.  A massclaim simply opens up more opportunities for the scum to mess with us, and claiming masks isn't a good idea.  However, from some things I've seen and heard, it appears that someone is besmirching guilty conscience onto other players.  Namely, Tiruin and hector13 have both suddenly gained guilty conscience, and the odds of curse randomly choosing guilty conscience twice is simply too low to consider.  So, who would do this?  Would a town player do this?  Likely not, all it does is restrict the one weapon the town possesses that the scumteam has difficulty getting around.  Would a third party player do this?  Maybe a doctor, but probably not.  Would a scum do this?  Absolutely.  Thus, the most probable conclusion is that the scum are trying to screw over the town's vote.

Which leads to an interesting conclusion.  This means that, if there is one scumteam, hector13 and Tiruin are LIKELY clear, and if there are two then it is LIKELY (not guaranteed, but likely) that they are not a member of the scumteam that is doing this.

Hold on just one second.

Me, origamiscienceguy, Shakerag, and TDS are in the clear for doing it, since we were all on the Peradon mislynch, the trick happened again today.  Tiruin is in the clear because she was changeling'd by TDS who has confirmed her powers.  hector13 is probably clear due to being the first one it happened to, although it isn't guaranteed.  flabort is probably clear because inflate did rise as much as he said, so I'm inclined to believe his D1 claim he was confirmed UtV D1, and UtV and GC cannot be taken together.  Which leaves... Varee, Deus Asmoth, and Persus13.  Of theswe, Deus Asmoth is the only one voting right now.  Of these people, Persus13 DID vote on D1, but his vote was on someone who had no chance of being lynched at the time by most observer's standards.  Varee kept attempting to vote for no-lynch but his vote never showed up, indicating that he was either UtV (which he claims he wasn't) or... I'll ask NQT about this.  However, his claim seems mostly in order.  Which leaves Persus13 and Deus Asmoth.  Due to the fact that Deus Asmoth is voting now, and on one of the two largest lynch wagons, this leaves Persus13 as our unlucky scum, by my logic.

NQT: Would a player who is blackmailed have their vote disappear/not appear in the votecount?

[4maskwolf]

If Persus13 didn't do it, the people I suspect are, in this order, Deus Asmoth, Varee, and hector13

[Tiruin]

I think someone is forgetting that there's someone also passing on an infect/poison in secret/changeling-radiant...or something which passed it on to me rather than direct targeting (unless that seriously meant more than 3 people targeted Silver. Also c'mon and target me :3 I am totally goading you, scum.)

PFP because my net = 

[Deus Asmoth]

Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.

[origamiscienceguy]

Me, origamiscienceguy, Shakerag, and TDS are in the clear for doing it, since we were all on the Peradon mislynch,

Why would being on the Peradon mislynch put us in the clear?

[hector13]

Me, origamiscienceguy, Shakerag, and TDS are in the clear for doing it, since we were all on the Peradon mislynch,

Why would being on the Peradon mislynch put us in the clear?

If you have a Guilty Conscience, you'd be deid.

[origamiscienceguy]

Oh. Duh.
*slaps myself*

[Tiruin]

Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else?

I'd like this answered too please, from my PFP standpoint given that I can see only recent pages due to net condition.
Because from where I see it...

Spoiler: SPoilered to not influence future answer (click to show/hide)

The only thing stopping this is if the scmteam have Cleanse, and there are no outstanding other -2 points in the way, and/or they didn't get Radiant-poisoned and/or infected. Because that'd be hilarious! (and if they lack circumspect).
Though I do believe they'd have alternatives to get around...their own, possible, scumplan.

[hector13]

I have to agree with Deus though, 4mask. You're logic has a lot of holes in it.

From what DA said, it could be that one, or more, of the people on the lynch had guilty conscience and gave it to other people and then got rid of it themselves, either via buying it off or cleansing it. This clears no-one.

Some of the people who were Unable to Vote could have had their vote stolen instead, and the thief didn't use the vote. This would likely clear the people who were voting.

The chances of Curse choosing the same flaw to give to someone is low (121-1 I think) yes, but you're assuming that Tiruin and I were both cursed. One of us could have been cursed, the other could have been besmirched.

I also have to question why Tiruin is in the clear after TDS claimed her powers. This is difficult to prove unless a third person claims they changeling'd TDS and received those powers.

[Persus13]

OSG:

Tiruin, why didn't you vote day 1? I can understand not being active in the conversations, but you should be active enough to at least get a vote and some reasoning in.

Should someone vote without having reviewed all the evidence? /incredulous

This may have simply been a rhetorical question, but did you ever answer this?

Deus Asmoth:

Persus, do you not consider OSG scummy enough to vote for if you're not voting for Tiruin any more?

I forgot to switch to him, thanks for reminding me. I would vote him here, but I just realized something about flabort that requires me to vote him.

Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.

Except neither hector13 nor Tiruin strike me as anyone's top scum picks.

hector13:

Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Or am I just being a little too critical here?

I'd say your first example could be taken as a possible example of buddying (emphasis on could), but the other two I just attribute to politeness. Being friendly or nice is something people can do in a Mafia game.

Varee:

Do you remember the last BYOR where Varee just advocated No Lynch and offered to build houses for people? And Varee turned out town?

That part make me laugh a lot, I dont even remember it and now I feel like am doing the exact same thing ....

Same here.

Tiruin: Glad to see posting. Did you sell the changelings or did they just vanish?

flabort: You accused TDS D1 of inconsistencies when claiming changeling when he said that he had gained then lost some copies of changeling (and then realizing he still had them). Now TDS has said he changelinged Tiruin D1. How would you know if TDS had changelinged someone D1 unless you were on a scumteam with them?

Spoiler: Flabort's post in question (click to show/hide)

Most Scum
The Dark Star: Man, I don't know how you managed to top the charts of so many people. My own reason for finding you scummy is first he leads us to believe he got changeling'd and lost his original powers^citation, but then took it back ^citation (I could mention this, but every one else already has). But his attack on OSG^{citationcitation}, which seemed very narrow minded (See also: tunneling^citation).

Shakerag:

Persus13:

Does it bother anyone how few lynch candidates there are?

What do you mean by this?

Start of D2 there were two vote candidates, TDS from D1 and OSG. In a game like this, I feel that there would be more lynch cases and if the lynch leader was scum there would be an alternative lynch case by the scum in order to get someone who wasn't their buddy lynched. Now I just think it was a sign of low activity or something as people are more active and votes are more all over the place.

4maskwolf:

Shakerag: Quit defending, OSG can take care of himself.

Why shouldn't people be able to defend other players?

  However, from some things I've seen and heard, it appears that someone is besmirching guilty conscience onto other players.  Namely, Tiruin and hector13 have both suddenly gained guilty conscience, and the odds of curse randomly choosing guilty conscience twice is simply too low to consider.

Just because odds are low, doesn't mean you shouldn't consider this. And no, I'm not saying that because you voted me. While I agree someone running a guilty conscience-besmirch combo is the most likely scenario, I'd make sure its the only possibility before using to steer your vote over normal scumhunting.

  Of theswe, Deus Asmoth is the only one voting right now.  Of these people, Persus13 DID vote on D1, but his vote was on someone who had no chance of being lynched at the time by most observer's standards.  Varee kept attempting to vote for no-lynch but his vote never showed up, indicating that he was either UtV (which he claims he wasn't) or... I'll ask NQT about this.  However, his claim seems mostly in order.  Which leaves Persus13 and Deus Asmoth.  Due to the fact that Deus Asmoth is voting now, and on one of the two largest lynch wagons, this leaves Persus13 as our unlucky scum, by my logic.

I don't have guilty conscience or besmirch.

[flabort]

pfp

Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.

Spoiler: not to influence answer (click to show/hide)

How about the fact that you can't buy flaws from the shop except on Day0? This seems fairly obvious, and your scenario is technically impossible.

Persus lol wut?
I explained that he had failed to mention that he'd kept his other powers, and listed his flaws as if he'd just gained them. This made me think he'd been changeling'd. I never mentioned him using it.
Also, wasn't one of his flaws dense and another mercenary? Can't check now, at work, but I would think that if he had those flaws, he'd be unable to use changeling on Tiruin. TDS is a better lynch choice, especially if you suspect he's in a team with annyone

[Tiruin]

I also have to question why Tiruin is in the clear after TDS claimed her powers. This is difficult to prove unless a third person claims they changeling'd TDS and received those powers.

I'd like this answered too from everyone harboring(?) the idea that I'm cleared.

...Also difficult to prove because? Given the notion there, it seems that would be difficult if you assume I'm paired with TDS (ie Mason Chat//Scumfriends)

Tiruin: Glad to see posting. Did you sell the changelings or did they just vanish?

They somehow went totally 'poof' before I could do anything with them. See: previous log and post-speculation on it (ie 'Delete' post...somehow the usual term of 'delete' doesn't show in any post I have in the searchengine but I'm sure I referenced the notion as I was to like 'Delete' back there to it...)

That reminds me:
Everyone doing Changeling POST-D1: Why did you do it? What made you target that mask?

[hector13]

I also have to question why Tiruin is in the clear after TDS claimed her powers. This is difficult to prove unless a third person claims they changeling'd TDS and received those powers.

I'd like this answered too from everyone harboring(?) the idea that I'm cleared.

...Also difficult to prove because?

It would require someone to know TDS's mask colour so that they know it was him that was changeling'd. I can't imagine he's willing to give that out.

Equally so, if he's scum it could be his partner that changeling'd you in the first place, so even if he did reveal his mask he obviously wouldn't have the powers in that instance.

[Tiruin]

It would require someone to know TDS's mask colour so that they know it was him that was changeling'd. I can't imagine he's willing to give that out.

Equally so, if he's scum it could be his partner that changeling'd you in the first place, so even if he did reveal his mask he obviously wouldn't have the powers in that instance.

I was wondering if it was my claim, alone, that influenced your question on me being in the clear, rather than what happened after I claimed and the proceeds then.

Equally so, if he's scum it could be his partner that changeling'd you in the first place, so even if he did reveal his mask he obviously wouldn't have the powers in that instance.

One bit here. Power-cop is unstoppable against (nothing is immune to it).

4 - Power-Cop (choose one: learn all powers of the target, learn all auto/upgrades of target/learn all flaws of the target)

Unless...

2 - Silent (you can't be tracked and you don't appear on patrol reports)

Patrol = allusion to 'Cop'.
Now if we had a Networker to be Power Cop'd, that would be nice. :V

[hector13]

Power Cop won't tell us if he was the one to Changeling you or not though, especially after his claim he no longer has the powers.

Your claim isn't why I think you're not clear. It was partly because 4mask lumped you in with TDS (who I think is scum, and am thus unwilling to believe) and partly because 4mask's logic is quite flawed, so I don't think it clears anyone.