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[Iapetus]

That being said the title of this thread could easily be changed to "Selective Breeding" without compromising the purpose of the thread, while at the same time removing a word which has a problematic history.

People have been talking about "Eugenics" in the context of DF for at least as long as I've been playing.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=search2

Yes, its a horrible and unacceptable thing in real life, but so is a lot of the other things people do in game (atom-smashing nobles, goblin gladiator arenas, dwarven childcare, trade depot drowning chambers, etc).

I don't see it as being particularly excessive (and embarking on a dwarvern eugenics program while calling it something else is probably even more problematic).

[zombat]

Such a beautiful word. Such a nice concept that never had unfortunate consequences.

Good thing you already set it on fire, so i don't have to do it. (In other words: yes, that's a definite trigger word for me.)

Remind me in the future not to select a thread title that is obviously facetious for a game that is often described as "you have to be a little bit autistic to enjoy it".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And before anyone gets their panties in a twist for me using the word 'autistic' know that I'm borderline myself.

Anyway, getting back to the science.
Chickens sound good.

We're going to need a decent sample size.
I'd say we should have a two pairs of weak chickens and two pairs of strong chickens, with a control group of three to four pairs.
The testing pairs should be in separate pits for each pair, the control group in one big pit where nature is allowed to run its course.

Now for the testing pairs do we cull the offspring or just separate them into more pits?

[Naryar]

Eugenics is not bad ! Okay ?

[Larix]

War is Peace! Black is White!

Is there any way to filter forum message view? I can only find how to apply a filter to personal messages (and yes, i made "eugenics" a delete argument years ago). I _would_ prefer just not seeing those threads.

OP actual content: There have been a few DF genetics experiments, but most were just a flimsy excuse for magmafying babies and sociopathy roleplay. Comparative chickens actually sound like something that could produce genuine information, since they get large clutches and short generations. Sounds like a pretty thorough setup overall; using all the offspring for further reproduction testing could easily overwhelm you with data that'd be hard to evaluate, so i'd recommend chicken roasts.

[evictedSaint]

Eugenics, or "selective breeding", is not currently possible in df, I believe.  Creatures traits are randomly generated at birth for creatures from the parents.  Historical creatures in world gen tend to inherit traits from their one parents, which is why some times during long histories migrant dwarves tend to all have the same skin and hair color.  During fort play, I think traits become randomly selected again, but Im not sure.

Edit: i was mistaken.

[Centigrade]

!!Eugenics!!

Why would you want to set your good genes on fire?
Followup question: why are you falsely advertising that this post is on fire?

[Spacebat]

Is there any way to filter forum message view? I can only find how to apply a filter to personal messages (and yes, i made "eugenics" a delete argument years ago). I _would_ prefer just not seeing those threads.

Perhaps you should look up some old posts about tentacle demons, depraved acts, and UNKNOWN_SUBSTANCE. This game is no place for the squeamish.

[KaptainKhaz]

Perhaps you should look up some old posts about tentacle demons, depraved acts, and UNKNOWN_SUBSTANCE. This game is no place for the squeamish.

Back to /dfg/ with you.

[zombat]

!!Eugenics!!

Why would you want to set your good genes on fire?
Followup question: why are you falsely advertising that this post is on fire?

Its like you're trying to imply that dorf science doesn't always eventually involve fire.
You must be a crazy person.

Eugenics, or "selective breeding", is not currently possible in df, I believe.  Creatures traits are randomly generated at birth for creatures from the parents.  Historical creatures in world gen tend to inherit traits from their one parents, which is why some times during long histories migrant dwarves tend to all have the same skin and hair color.  During fort play, I think traits become randomly selected again, but Im not sure.

Edit: i was mistaken.

Are you sure?
I could've sworn I remember reading in a patch note years ago that size atleast is passed on to the offspring.

[Skullsploder]

I reckon you should record and then stuff the chicks into separate cages according to which group gave birth to them. The second stage of the experiment would be to see if close interbreeding affects stats, and anyway if the experiment does show that selective breeding for physical attributes is now possible, you'll want to continue with the experiment to see what the strongest and weakest attainable stats are over generations. Is it possible to consistently get units at the ultimate highest level of base attributes (we're talking undead level here)? Will poor breeding create useless war animals (/dwarves)?

Basically, lots of chickens is a good thing, and won't hurt your fps if you keep them in cages.

[Bumber]

IIRC, the main obstacle with past attempts was that there's possibly a significant random component to the inheritance. Breeding two strong creatures might still give you average offspring, requiring constant maintenance even after you've finished your selective breeding program. Granted the experiments were all on dwarves before spores were removed.

[draeath]

Turkeys would be a good choice wouldn't they? They have such a large clutch size - the extra maturity time might be made up for by the volume of sample results per cycle.

[TheHossofMoss]

I practice this a lot with my animals. I tend to make the best fit animals as pets (That way I don't accidentally butcher them), and make them breed like crazy. Then I secure at least one more pair (hopefully large, fatty pair), and again, make them pets. That way I've got some security should the originals die of old age.

Then I butcher the offspring once they are of adult age. Sometimes I wait til' I've got a few to butcher so it's less micro-managing. I don't really know if this has any benefits, but it helps quell the boredom I sometimes get while waiting for bigger projects to come to fruition.

[Aslandus]

I have heard genetics are in the game but I never bother with selective breeding, the extra returns from future generations of livestock doesn't make much difference since there is no cost to keeping an extra dozen chickens around and they lay roughly the same number of eggs regardless of their genes, though for grazing animals like horses it might be useful to make sure you aren't wasting pasture space on animals that will only give you a little bit of meat when butchered...

Egg layers are even easier to breed now than they used to be since the game tells you whether eggs are fertilized or not (I think, I play LNP so I don't know if it's in vanilla), so you don't have to waste nest box time trying to figure out whether the eggs are going to make babies or not...

[Crashmaster]

"Eugenics" used as if it weren't an utterly objectionable concept and a movement built around harming actual people...

Perhaps a relevant way of thinking about it in the 1920's but predominantly in the modern world it refers to genetic work on fetuses to prevent callously inflicting maladies upon offspring (which I support) with advancements recently towards 'designer' babies (which I do not support). However there are still extremists that would use such things for uniformly objectionable purposes or unexpected consequences that could occur as there are with all forms of science. Whether we allow such risks to control the advancement and use of such technologies is a matter that requires serious debate and determination in our own lifetime.