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[bulborbish]

Heck it is one of the reasons I want Sword and Shield and Double Swords to be combined into one single weapon. It would make them far more consistent game to game.

Hey, don't demean the honourable Double Swords by comparing it to Sword and Shield, it is the best foot stabbing weapon in the game.

But more seriously, Sword and Shield and Dual Swords still have their own niches to fill, and combining them to make them compare more to larger weapons would make them both more disappointing at what they do.

Sword and Shield, while it exists to be a beginner friendly weapon, has a niche of a semi mobile, semi defensive weapon with some fairly decent attack combos. It's low attack power is considered an acceptable trade off for this weapon so it can remain beginner friendly but not become the optimal weapon for higher level play.

In comparison, Dual Swords main focus is getting as many hits in as possible, and it's moveset is focused on temporarily buffing it's sharpness and attacks that have bounce resistance. It is best suited to using elemental attacks due to the lower base power of it's attacks. It's main weaknesses is that the amount of attacks that it lands, along with the bounces it receives during it's bounce resistant attacks, makes it's durability plummet quickly. In addition, charging it's Demon mode counter is extremely stamina intensive, pretty much forcing the player to carry dash juice or have Cats with Stamina Abilities.

Both weapons has the advantage of being very low key, allowing a good player to get hits in without worries of accidentally attacking allies in multiplayer, even though both are pretty much only useful at killing legs. And yes I am a Dual Blades Main.

[Baneling]

The thing there is that, for one, a large part of GS damage is crit draw, and for another, sharpness is a /really huge/ modifier when you're dealing with single-hit big damage. Just ignoring it is a kind of silly thing to do.

Also, nobody actually knows how affinity works. Really. It's not consistently "you get negative crits 20% of the time with -20% affinity" or anything, it's just "you sometimes get negative crits, maybe?" At least, as far as I'm aware. No idea if anybody has figured out exactly how it works, though.

Not to mention the fact that, for the CB ultra charge you're calculating multiple hits with...what I think is an average? (Honestly, that part is a bit confusing, clarification would be nice.) That leads to further inaccuracy from the actual damage numbers, considering that's being taken before several other modifiers.

And true damage is just dumb and broken. :|

[Ygdrad]

The thing there is that, for one, a large part of GS damage is crit draw, and for another, sharpness is a /really huge/ modifier when you're dealing with single-hit big damage. Just ignoring it is a kind of silly thing to do.

Your crit draw is worth much less than you think it does, details further down.
The sharpness was left out of the equation since the two weapons had the same sharpness level and so the damage multiplier from it. In my sleepy state I thought it didn't matter and it wouldn't have if we weren't comparing raw with true damage, so both have purple sharpness and that is a 1.44 multiplier so the numbers are now as follow:

Head
GS: (368*1.44)*0.65= 344.448 damage dealt
CB: (672*1.44)*0.65+150= 778.992 damage dealt

Body
GS: (368*1.44)*0.25= 132.48 damage dealt
CB: (672*1.44)*0.25+150= 391.92 damage dealt

Also, nobody actually knows how affinity works. Really. It's not consistently "you get negative crits 20% of the time with -20% affinity" or anything, it's just "you sometimes get negative crits, maybe?" At least, as far as I'm aware. No idea if anybody has figured out exactly how it works, though.

Affinity and crits have been figured out ages ago and are very simple. A crit is 25% more damage, a negative crit is 25% less damage, your affinity is your chance to crit/uncrit. In the case of the GS in the above calculation we have -20% affinity so a 20% chance of dealing 75% damage, which is a 25% damage loss, so 20% of 25% is 5% and so on average this weapon will deal 5% less damage than the numbers would suggest.

Not to mention the fact that, for the CB ultra charge you're calculating multiple hits with...what I think is an average? (Honestly, that part is a bit confusing, clarification would be nice.) That leads to further inaccuracy from the actual damage numbers, considering that's being taken before several other modifiers.

And true damage is just dumb and broken. :|

The various burst attacks from the axe mode cause different numbers of phial explosions after the hit, in the combo you get form pressing AAA the first move has one blast, the second move gets two blasts and the third move gets 3 blasts, the third move is the super blast which you can shortcut your way to in various ways. Note that these burst attacks only use one of your phials each. The ultra burst is something you can turn your super burst into, it will consume your shield/axe boost and all your phials dealing a nasty hit which comes with a frontal shockwave dealing phial blast damage equal to the number of phials you had. The numbers, as far as I'm aware are fine now that the sharpness above is factored in.

True damage has been in the game for a loooooong time, since the first game in fact, barrel bombs, crag/cluster shots, cannons(i think), gunlance shelling and wyvern fire also are partial true damage and I'm not 100% sure about the bow blast arrow, slimeblight/blasblight from things like brachidios weapons are also true damage.

Edit:
OH SNAP! I forgot that since one would have the shield boost on you have to give that charge blade an extra 20% damage
Edit 2: Aaand I forgot that that 20% boost applies to all CB attacks EXCEPT the ultra burst.

Edit3:
If we want to talk about a readily spammable attack, burst 3, or super burst(the thing the guy kept using in the video) is what we should look into when looking at it from a dps/useability standpoint instead of alpha strike power
Math to be added in a moment, please wait...

Edit 4: math is here

The super charge motion value is 0.9 + 3 blasts with 0.1 value each as true/neutral damage
our CB weapon power was 300 so lets do the math again
CB Super burst: 0.9*300 cut + 0.3*300 true= 270 cutting damage and 90 true damage before sharpness
so 270*1.2*1.44 for the shield/axe boost and sharpness respectively for 466.56 cutting damage and 90*1.2(shield/axe boost) = 108 true damage
magala head
466.56*0.65+108= 411.264
to the greatsword's 344.448
magala body
466.56*0.25+108= 224.64
to the greatsword's 132.48

Still not factoring that 5% damage loss on the GS or the bonus element on the CB skewing the number in the GS's favor. Super Burst can also be done right out of a guard which itself will apply a free phial blast for a free extra 18 true/neutral damage(phial blasts outside of Super and ultra bursts get a motion value of 0.05 instead of 0.1). Take into consideration that that the super burst can be quickly comboed into or come out instantly after blocking an attack and you have more openings than a GS user has. You can do something silly like landing 2-3 swords strikes at an enemy about to attack you and at the last moment press the switch button to get an autoguard which then gets you a free phial burst plus a combo-free quick super burst. As long as you learn to use those guarding frames, or guard points as most people call them, you can be suicidally aggressive while staying perfectly safe and dishing out ludicrous damage and knocking out monsters left right and center.

For example, at the moment in low rank I'm using a mixed set giving me Guard+2 and Guard Up which means I can block all attacks in the game and do so easily. These two skills are just as offensive as defensive with the CB and let me keep on trucking... when I'm not screwing up and getting turned into some monster's starstruck plaything that is. Need more practice.

[Rex Invictus]

Me at the minute:

[Neonivek]

Heck it is one of the reasons I want Sword and Shield and Double Swords to be combined into one single weapon. It would make them far more consistent game to game.

Sword and Shield, while it exists to be a beginner friendly weapon, has a niche of a semi mobile, semi defensive weapon with some fairly decent attack combos. It's low attack power is considered an acceptable trade off for this weapon so it can remain beginner friendly but not become the optimal weapon for higher level play.

That is what its current role is but frankly that is just the noose around its neck. "Noob weapon" is no excuse for being suboptimal on purpose.

Heck the "You can use items on the go" of the Sword and Shield is a huge "not an advantage" because out of every weapon in the game, it is the one that needs it the least. If a weapon that worked like the Great Sword could do that it would certainly be a boon. But a weapon you can move quickly with it out and block efficiently you have no reason to be in such dire straits. MAYBE if you could attack and use items at the same time. The Item on the go just makes it an even larger "No Risk No Reward" weapon, which is honestly the biggest risk you can take in the game.

By combining both, both weapons become a lot better at what they currently do. It allows you to go between a defensive and offensive build on the fly. Basically becoming a weapon of unshakable momentum.

If sword and shield is truly meant to be a beginner weapon then I'd agree with you... But given that it gets upgrades, even ones that require items from event monsters, from the start to finish. The game itself doesn't support that assumption. Even then I think at most the game assumes the sword and shield is meant to fight smaller enemies (It is certainly the best weapon in terms of safely dealing with them, but way later you just ignore they exist)

But even then assuming it is a beginner weapon here is an immediate fix. Low end SnS weapons only are SnS, once you advance up the path they suddenly get that new DS function. Thus allowing players to have a beginner weapon they can practice with that eventually advance into a complex and deep weapon later down the line.

It is best suited to using elemental attacks due to the lower base power of it's attacks.

It is funny when you say that because both SnS and DS use elemental power as their main source of damage after a certain cut off. I don't even know if there is a high end physical one. Funny because the game itself all but tells you to do it.

---

Besides it can't be a worse implementation of a transforming weapon then the Sword Axe was.

[majikero]

I like the switch axe. What's wrong with it?

Edit. Oh you mean the new sword axe thing. My bad.

[Nighthawk]

i like my sns and gs

probably not switching any time soon

I'm with you there. GS master race.
It's just so good... at everything. And so simple! The sweep can remove several smaller monsters with ease. The draw can go straight into an absurdly powerful charge attack, or can be released early. The cutting power makes chopping tails a breeze. And if you don't have time to dodge away... you can block. It even has a stunning slap (albeit a very weak one).

Apart from stunning, is there any situation in which a GS is not amazing?

[bulborbish]

The point of the Sword and Shield Being a "Noob Weapon" is that it is forgiving for both dodging based and defending based playstyles, not that it is a "noob weapon" in that peters out at the end. From that it should be easy moving on to any other weapon when you want to vary up your weapon of choice.

You suggest that Dual Blades could be an alternate form of Sword and Shield, but this is a strong nerf to how Dual blades are supposed to work. Without the Demon and Archdemon mode mechanic, Dual Swords are essentially a glorified Sword and Shield that cannot block, making it pointless to even use it.

Alternatively, you could do what freedom unite did and make Dual Swords on the same upgrade tree as Sword and Shield. But then why not just make Dual Blades a weapon usable at the start, which is what 3 did, instead of forcing dual blade users to use Sword and Shield until they were able to get their weapon.

Also, while both weapons are elemental focused due to their attack rate they get in, I need to emphasize that Dual Blades does far more elemental damage than Sword and Shield due to how their attack rate dwarfs even S&S. In general Dual Blades has higher elemental attack values and equal physical damage values than Sword and Shield, which suits the fact that it is meant to leverage elemental effects far more than sword and shield.

To be honest, if I had to "fix" S&S and DS to make them more viable, I would give S&S a alternate mode which Twohands his sword (giving up the shield and defending) for improved physical attack power while maintaining comparable speed, and restating S&S to be higher physical damage compared to elemental damage of DS.

Apart from stunning, is there any situation in which a GS is not amazing?

It's probably too amazing at hitting allies, though it's not as bad as spirit mode LS in that regard.

[majikero]

I'm still baffled by the so called noob hammer. I can never seem to get how to use it.

[Baneling]

Hold R to charge. Walk behind/beside the monster after it attacks. Release WHILE HOLDING STILL as it turns.

The monster will effectively slam its face into your attack and you will do KO damage with your superpound.

Repeat until monster is KO'd.

When monster is KO'd, face its head and mash A for mad damage.

Repeat until monster is dead, while not getting hit.

[Neonivek]

this is a strong nerf to how Dual blades are supposed to work

I am not suggesting it lose any of its mechanics. You just gain the additional ability to take out a shield and put it back away again. Possibly on the fly.

Not that the idea of having them both out at the same time lacks Merit...

I find it sad that you could combine Sword and Shield and Double Sword into a single weapon that has all the powers of both at once at peak... and it still wouldn't overpower the weapon.

As for a mode for the Sword and Shield that makes it a two handed sword. That is not a great idea mostly because it would step on the toes of all the "Two handed sword" weapons that overpopulate things.

Giving it "counter blocks" might be a step in the right direction (An attack that is also a block that can do better damage), as well as enhancing its overall speed and control... Or give it a wicked "Hit them while they are down" attack (but then again all weapons are kind of like that). Or do more with this "Climb on" mechanic and make Sword and Shield really good at it.

[SirAaronIII]

Sword and shield already is really good at the whole mounting deal, thanks to its ability to attack both up and down ledges. That probably puts it right up there with IG and lance for ease of mounts.

Maybe they could have your guy stab the monster with your actual weapon instead of the carving knife as an SNS exclusive ability.

[SirAaronIII]

Yeah. They're just not as hype.

[Ygdrad]

Speaking of SnS' forte: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIRuMqEI0IY

[Neyvn]

Speaking of SnS' forte: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIRuMqEI0IY

DAMN, I hate watching these vids then thinking, I wish I was that skilled to not take damage...

Side note, looks like there was an update for new DLC, have yet to open it back up and check it out...
EDIT:: NVM, It was nothing, just the update to set up the DLC stuff, I haven't restarted the game since getting it so yeah...