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[scapheap]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="scapheap">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="bCity" x="10" y="26">
      <cityname>Comcast</cityname>
    </tileorder>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="9" y="25"/>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="16">
      <building code="market"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="4">
      <building code="arcR"/>
    </cityorder>
  </cityorders>
  <armyorgorders/>
  <armyorders>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="8" x="10" y="26">
      <step dx="-1" dy="1"/>
    </armyorder>
  </armyorders>
</playerturn>

[SilverDragon]

Spoiler: Turn 18 (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="SilverDragon">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="26" y="31"/>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders/>
  <armyorgorders/>
  <armyorders>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="0" x="23" y="29">
      <step dx="-1" dy="-1"/>
    </armyorder>
  </armyorders>
</playerturn>

[hector13]

Spoiler: Turn 18 (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="hector13">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="bImp" x="14" y="7">
      <improvement code="fishV"/>
    </tileorder>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders>
    <cityorder type="addPop" cityid="8"/>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="17">
      <building code="market"/>
    </cityorder>
  </cityorders>
  <armyorgorders/>
  <armyorders>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="10" x="13" y="8">
      <step dx="0" dy="-1"/>
      <step dx="0" dy="-1"/>
    </armyorder>
  </armyorders>
</playerturn>

[Kashyyk]

It's not really metagaming. Metagaming is putting other people's actions for that turn into the admin interface so you know what they're going to do before they do it. Checking out how well your army might fare against an enemy force is just strategy.

Expanding on that, Vanigo actively encourages checking out what resources your opponents have/are short on, what buildings their cities have, etc. It's all technically possible to read in the game XML anyway, so using the admin interface is just easier.

[Squeegy]

I would consider THAT metagaming, or at least bad sportsmanship. You can technically just open the spoiler and read what your opponents are doing too. That doesn't make it right.

[lemon10]

But that's metagaming! I'll get around to my turn eventually but atm I'm busy.

As everyone else has said, its not metagaming, its simply playing smart.

I would consider THAT metagaming, or at least bad sportsmanship. You can technically just open the spoiler and read what your opponents are doing too. That doesn't make it right.

Anything you can do in the Player Interface or learn in the Admin interface is allowed and acceptable, as they are both the tools being given to you. Or, at least it was in every previous game, if you feel strongly enough you could indeed forbid people to check out what resources and buildings other players have.
Reading your opponents spoiler is different, as thats explicitly forbidden, and the information isn't freely given to every player.

While reading your opponents spoilers is cheating, neither is really metagaming.

[Rolepgeek]

As a note, Squeegy, you shouldn't consider that metagaming for a simple reason. In the turn events spoiler you put up, any buildings or units someone puts up are quite evident. If one were to check each turn religiously and record that, and since we know how much each building costs, and what improvements/tiles people own etc. you would be able to figure out someone's buildings and resources at any given time anyway. The exception is changes made by trade, of course, but only because it's not an inherent part of the game mechanics already.

[Squeegy]

If you want to compile that you can. But I frown on accessing any information in the Admin Interface you aren't provided in the Player Interface. You might argue that testing out battles falls under that category. My short answer is: No. And I'm the GM.

For that matter, I'm inclined to allow unit trading, which is apparently frowned upon in previous versions, but I'll have to ask NQT why he forbid it first.

[lemon10]

I do feel the need to point out that you can get the data of all the players by simply reading it in the turn saves without needing to use the admin interface at all.

For that matter, I'm inclined to allow unit trading, which is apparently frowned upon in previous versions, but I'll have to ask NQT why he forbid it first.

Basically because it and city/terrain trading caused more problems (mainly in complicating the trading rules to prevent exploits) than they were worth.

[SilverDragon]

It goes against my 'moral ideas' to use a tactic like that. It's like being able to go back and time and change your plans, so I won't use it, even if you guys say it's okay.

[Squeegy]

Yes, I'm aware, but just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Anyway, as soon as Rolepgeek submits his turn we can move on.

It goes against my 'moral ideas' to use a tactic like that. It's like being able to go back and time and change your plans, so I won't use it, even if you guys say it's okay.

Ok, as long as you're aware this puts you at a disadvantage, and you're already pretty much the underdog in this game.

[Rolepgeek]

My point was that you could achieve such information without needing to use the Admin interface; the admin interface just makes it easier.

If you don't want us to use the admin interface, don't post the link to it with each turn. I mean, really man. >.> Half the time I do it simply so I can tell what things people might want/have for trade.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="Rolepgeek">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="35" y="21"/>
    <tileorder type="bImp" x="34" y="27">
      <improvement code="lumb"/>
    </tileorder>
    <tileorder type="bImp" x="36" y="34">
      <improvement code="farm"/>
    </tileorder>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="37" y="34"/>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="6">
      <building code="libr"/>
    </cityorder>
  </cityorders>
  <armyorgorders/>
  <armyorders/>
</playerturn>

[SilverDragon]

I'll be the worst player here regardless of if I use the admin interface. I'll take my chances.

[Squeegy]

My point was that you could achieve such information without needing to use the Admin interface; the admin interface just makes it easier.

If you don't want us to use the admin interface, don't post the link to it with each turn. I mean, really man. >.> Half the time I do it simply so I can tell what things people might want/have for trade.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="Rolepgeek">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="35" y="21"/>
    <tileorder type="bImp" x="34" y="27">
      <improvement code="lumb"/>
    </tileorder>
    <tileorder type="bImp" x="36" y="34">
      <improvement code="farm"/>
    </tileorder>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="37" y="34"/>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="6">
      <building code="libr"/>
    </cityorder>
  </cityorders>
  <armyorgorders/>
  <armyorders/>
</playerturn>

Here's my justification: Accessing that information basically gives you access to a player's economic weaknesses. That's pretty privileged information to have on your rivals, so it's unfair for you to just look at it the same way it's unfair to intercept their orders to their armies and settlements. If they're short on wood, then you know that unless they trade with someone they're not going to be able to produce wood-heavy units, which means that destroying their units is costly to them. It's fine for them to reveal this information to you through diplomacy and trade. It's not okay for you to look it up on your own. The admin interface link is more for me than it is for you guys, except to test out battles, since that doesn't give you any information about your opponents you couldn't get through the player interface.

So don't do it.

[lemon10]

I'll be the worst player here regardless of if I use the admin interface. I'll take my chances.

Yeah, but not using it to simulate battles is something that will quite probably cost you the game. Amusingly its more important the less experience you have, because you have less experience on judging how a battle will go.
It seems odd to say "I'm probably the worst at the game, so I won't use very important tools, even though not using them will make me worse player".\
*Shrugs* its all up to you to play how you want to though.