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Author Topic: Game design 'moods' and autism?  (Read 17876 times)

Dreamer

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2007, 08:39:00 pm »

I've always had an idea for a book that I've wanted to write, which would be different from other books because I was designing it specifically to avoid all of the cliches that have developped over the years and try to make something that was "new".  Unfortunately I lack the motivation gene and put it off for when "I'm in the mood", but when I finally begin writing this book, I would get at most five pages, or more often a few paragraphs, and I would become completely and utterly stuck.  I wouldn't know what to write after that, and everything I would write after the initial paragraphs would seem inferior to what I wrote before.

Then, I would get a new idea about the book, but this idea would require a complete and utter change of direction, beginning, setting, and everything.  The cycle would begin again, to the frustrating conclusion that I can't write anything more intriguing than short stories.  I could become better by writing different things, but I still lack the motivation gene - There are other things that grant more immediate gratification than figuring out how to write a good story.

This is probably the root of the end of these 'moods', though I'm probably wrong, it's certainly the case for me.  I get an idea, I write out the idea, but when it comes to execution, I find myself lacking in one respect or another and don't go beyond initiating the project, prefering to stay within the realm of other more entertaining, but ultimately directionless, tasks.

It certainly takes a certain mindset to go through with these projects.  I'm sure some form of mental condition (Be it autism, which I believe I have to some insubstantial extent (Don't... Touch. Me.), or something more severe) could contribute or contradict, but I'd guess that it were only the determining factor in a few instances, which would be impossible to prove in any case.

Humans are too complex to be listed under, "This one has certain qualities, so this one will do this."  It's like saying, "Because there's a giant meteor out there, it will crash into earth."  There's no end category or explanation for why these people find the inspiration, the motivation, and the capacity to orchestrate such magnificent accomplishments, all in one neat little package.

They could just as easily choose to go play Solitaire.

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Armok

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2007, 07:51:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer:
<STRONG>I've always had an idea for a book that I've wanted to write, which would be different from other books because I was designing it specifically to avoid all of the cliches that have developped over the years and try to make something that was "new".  Unfortunately I lack the motivation gene and put it off for when "I'm in the mood", but when I finally begin writing this book, I would get at most five pages, or more often a few paragraphs, and I would become completely and utterly stuck.  I wouldn't know what to write after that, and everything I would write after the initial paragraphs would seem inferior to what I wrote before.

Then, I would get a new idea about the book, but this idea would require a complete and utter change of direction, beginning, setting, and everything.  The cycle would begin again, to the frustrating conclusion that I can't write anything more intriguing than short stories.  I could become better by writing different things, but I still lack the motivation gene - There are other things that grant more immediate gratification than figuring out how to write a good story.

This is probably the root of the end of these 'moods', though I'm probably wrong, it's certainly the case for me.  I get an idea, I write out the idea, but when it comes to execution, I find myself lacking in one respect or another and don't go beyond initiating the project, prefering to stay within the realm of other more entertaining, but ultimately directionless, tasks.

It certainly takes a certain mindset to go through with these projects.  I'm sure some form of mental condition (Be it autism, which I believe I have to some insubstantial extent (Don't... Touch. Me.), or something more severe) could contribute or contradict, but I'd guess that it were only the determining factor in a few instances, which would be impossible to prove in any case.

Humans are too complex to be listed under, "This one has certain qualities, so this one will do this."  It's like saying, "Because there's a giant meteor out there, it will crash into earth."  There's no end category or explanation for why these people find the inspiration, the motivation, and the capacity to orchestrate such magnificent accomplishments, all in one neat little package.

They could just as easily choose to go play Solitaire.</STRONG>


You must be me!   :eek:

Thats exactly the problem I have, and it render my life meaningless.

Edit: On second thought you can't be me, because I am a to lousy author to have ever been able to phrase it that well.

[ November 30, 2007: Message edited by: Armok ]

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Dreamer

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2007, 06:41:00 pm »

Wow, Armok just said he was me...  Or, that I was him.  Or something.  :confused:
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Fenrir

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2007, 07:51:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer:
<STRONG>I've always had an idea for a book that I've wanted to write, which would be different from other books because I was designing it specifically to avoid all of the cliches that have developped over the years and try to make something that was "new".  Unfortunately I lack the motivation gene and put it off for when "I'm in the mood", but when I finally begin writing this book, I would get at most five pages, or more often a few paragraphs, and I would become completely and utterly stuck.  I wouldn't know what to write after that, and everything I would write after the initial paragraphs would seem inferior to what I wrote before.

Then, I would get a new idea about the book, but this idea would require a complete and utter change of direction, beginning, setting, and everything.  The cycle would begin again, to the frustrating conclusion that I can't write anything more intriguing than short stories.  I could become better by writing different things, but I still lack the motivation gene - There are other things that grant more immediate gratification than figuring out how to write a good story.

This is probably the root of the end of these 'moods', though I'm probably wrong, it's certainly the case for me.  I get an idea, I write out the idea, but when it comes to execution, I find myself lacking in one respect or another and don't go beyond initiating the project, prefering to stay within the realm of other more entertaining, but ultimately directionless, tasks.

It certainly takes a certain mindset to go through with these projects.  I'm sure some form of mental condition (Be it autism, which I believe I have to some insubstantial extent (Don't... Touch. Me.), or something more severe) could contribute or contradict, but I'd guess that it were only the determining factor in a few instances, which would be impossible to prove in any case.

Humans are too complex to be listed under, "This one has certain qualities, so this one will do this."  It's like saying, "Because there's a giant meteor out there, it will crash into earth."  There's no end category or explanation for why these people find the inspiration, the motivation, and the capacity to orchestrate such magnificent accomplishments, all in one neat little package.

They could just as easily choose to go play Solitaire.</STRONG>



Yep, this describes my condition. What are we going to do about it? Is there a cure?  :(
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nerdpride

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2007, 10:10:00 am »

I used to think that I'd never get started doing computer stuff too.  I don't know how it happened, I guess I was thinking about it and got sick of not doing anything.

Then again, that was when I was in high school, I was pretty bored around then.  Maybe having plenty of spare time was more contributing than having dreams, I don't know.

But I definitely like computer games better than silly fantasy books.  Someone would have to go far out of their way to make some new kind of writing whereas I can think of a ton of game-styles that haven't been done yet.

Someone should really combine Space Invaders with Asteroids.

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Dreamer

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2007, 11:25:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>
Yep, this describes my condition. What are we going to do about it? Is there a cure?     :(</STRONG>

I've been thinking about it, and I think the best way is to write about something and anything.  It doesn't have to be incredibly interesting or good, but in the least you have to practice or you won't get anywhere.  The best thing we could do to get ourselves around to actually becoming better, or getting ideas, or just getting it done is simply to motivate ourselves enough to do it, and quit bouncing around our favorite internet sites for something entertaining every fifteen minutes.  Heck, you could write and]/i] play Dwarf Fortress at the same time - It could be some sort of challange game.

I'm sure there's all sorts of little games we could play on these forums to encourage some sort of writing or (As this thread seems to be all about) game-creation practice.  Some sort of, "Continue the Story", or "Talk about Writers/Developpers" might get some minds going, but I can't think of a way to do it without the thread dying right after I post it.

Either that or we could do our own little Novel Writing Month. (Or not.)

[ December 02, 2007: Message edited by: Dreamer ]

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Chaos

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2007, 06:06:00 pm »

Seems like like-minded people are drawn to similar things (I have aspberger's syndrome).

Personally I keep having ideas rushing through my head a lot of the time. Sometimes I feel like I want to chanel it through programing, sometimes throgh writing, but so far it hasn't really clicked into place. I like to focus on one thing at a time though, and currently I'm focusing on my studies (game-dev). It's   difficult though, I think I may have a bit of ADHD going on as well.

For me, there are two things that drive me though: the desire for knowledge and the desire to create. Combining this with my greatest interest, videogames, made the means to fulfilling these two drives clear. Learn how how to program and how games work and then see where that takes me. I am currently working on the second part.

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Old School Gamer

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2008, 12:59:00 am »

I also get these kind of autism-like strange moods, and really I think that it has a lot to do with the way that I think and perceive the world.  

It's interesting and also makes sense that so many people who get very deep into Dwarf Fortress are inclined to this way of being.  Dwarf Fortress is an exceptionally deep game, in which the player is given an environment to carve essentially whatever they want out of the landscape and create something that's truly theirs, in a deep, complex, and introspective way.  Dwarf Fortress itself inspires creativity on a scale beyond anything else that I personally have encountered in 25 years of computer use.

Since first playing it about 2 months ago, I am totally captivated by the game.  I sit on breaks at work and make sketches of fortresses, calculate magma unit totals in order to make working forges, and so on.


Some unrelated strange moods that I've gotten into in the past (keep in mind that I am open-minded beyond reason and certified nutty):

Involving Kiersey Type theory, INFJ, INTP, all of that, and trying to map the 16 personality types onto a cube-based 3D representation (the latest theories on type theory involve 4 light and 4 dark functions for each individual, which interestingly can be seen to correspond to a yin-yang sort of duality, which when mapped 3 dimensionally could be seen to form a sphere within the 3D cube which when bisected [is that the word?] at the central point would have the appearance of a yin-yang symbol)

Another notion relating to Taoist ideas, and infinity - universal yin and universal yang, which could be represented as a simultaneous infinite root and infinite power;  I also had some related ideas about mapping reality onto the matrix of a 3-Sphere, one mathematically represented by i(imaginary unit) * c(light), the other by m(matter) * c(light), and how this would fit in with Einstein's thoughts on the notion that if the universe were infinite, it would have to be quasi-euclidean, and therefore quasi-spherical.

I also had an idea for a party-based RPG where a group of gamer friends go into a haunted house and do a seance, and a djinn arrives who asks them their wish; they say they want to be in a computer game, and the djinn shrinks them into ant-size (at which point the game begins). They then must reverse the curse by adventuring within the haunted house or the world would be destroyed by the djinn's magic, which emanated out of the haunted house upon their shrinking.  Probably a cool idea, but I'll never be a programmer,  I'm more visual-based than mathematical.

I spent anywhere from a week to a couple months on each of these, developing very deep theories and models for each,  a kind of a brainstorming and analytical process and definitely each could be termed a strange mood.

But the point is, yes, I don't mind getting crazy notions now and then, and every time that I do it conforms with the way that my mind works - extreme depth, extreme intensity of the analytical process, very thorough and concise querying into the heart of whatever the questions are involving the creation.


Speaking about this creationary fire, these strange moods, it takes truly intense creativity to make deep projects whose creative fire burns strong and bright and doesn't diminish.  I think that people who can find a more pragmatic or real project to sink that creative power into within these bounds are quite lucky.  You have to have that inner, introspective, deep, powerful fire inside of you to be able to create on the level at which Toady creates, or any other true renaissance artist is able to create.

You also have to have total belief in what you're doing, and to be inspired by the creation itself.  You have to believe in yourself beyond doubt, and the project itself must be something which you know has something to it, and which you are passionate about.

I think that with the projects that stop halfway through, it happens for a whole variety of reasons.  Some can be external, some can be internal.  But true artistry is honest, it is all-consuming for the artist, and this is because there is something deep and inexpressive within it which yearns to be brought into the world and expressed.  It's a passion, and it is a love affair with whatever essential, truly beautiful creation the artist is able to conceive of and perceive within their own mind, and the all-consuming passion is the desire for it to be real, within the world.  To make a something within an empty space, and make that space the better for it.

You've got to reach in, grasp with all of your might, and wrest from the ether  this beautiful creation.  For some artists it's all that they really want from life, and this is the power of the 'strange mood' that we can be gripped with from time to time.  


Think about it - when you kick at the end of your days, would you rather have said "fuck it, I'm going to go all out, no boundaries", or would you be glad to have made the choice to conform, do what everyone else does, and hope that you've met the status quo and done what had been done before.

In some real way, the people who have it in them to pour themselves into a single creation have found an 'it' which maybe not many people are able to find.  If you've got the ability to see something through the dense underbrush which no one else seems to have found, seen, or made, this thing is an 'it' which is worth reaching in and bringing forth.


I'm trying to paint the picture of how people get inspired by these things, I've done my best, time to sleep.        :)

Side note - Check out my guitar blog/drawing blog if you're up for it, here's a  link: Disheveled Guitar/Drawing Blog
I'm actually in a strange mood kind of mood lately, and I feel like I might get back to adding to those blogs.  I know, more internet detritus, but oh well.

[ January 12, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

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Armok

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2008, 07:04:00 am »

Beautiful!
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Cpt.Timely

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2008, 02:19:00 pm »

Wow, those are looong posts. i wanted to read them all, but i couldnt be bothered. Anyways, i have this same thing, only less so much as really feeling in the mood to make something and then just stop making it (anymore). used to. now i just always feel inclined to make everything much more efficient than the usual way to do it. im good at it too, makes my life so, so much better than everyone else's  ;)
There is a lot of truth in what u have been saying, as i always felt that i must be slightly autistic in my own way, that there must be something making me pick up on things that much faster than my peers, and i have aspired to be an engineer for most of my life, and have had it recommended on occasion that i do become one by ppl that dont even know me (like substitute math teachers, lol).
anyways, as i was reading your first post, armok, ADOM came to my head way b4 u even mentioned any games. It was the first roguelike i evr played, one of the first games i evr played, and it is actually my favourite game i have evr played. i was really sad when i learned that he had stopped developping it, but very recently he updated his site and it turns out that he has been busy as hell. YAY ^.^!!!!
Other games like these:
-Grid Wars 2
-Blockland
-(RRRGH there was a third one that was very related to everything, but i just can't remember it)
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Torak

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2008, 01:14:00 am »

I tried to get into Java and C++ programming a good five years ago, but never got past the basic parts before my brain imploded. Programming's such a bitch. Maybe some day i'll find someone who knows it and can teach me, until then, im stuck with no ability to do anything but use a text file.
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Gigalith

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2008, 12:04:00 pm »

EPIC LEGENDARY BUMP OF THE DARK GODS!!!

*dusts off the topic*

Well, after several long months, switching from one planned novel to the other, and even two changes in self-identity, I have completed the Prologue and Chapter One of my novel. And it's really complete. Not "It will do." complete, not "It's just a draft." complete, but "If I could snap my fingers and publish it instantly, I would." complete.

How did I do it? It was a single saying a pastor that I knew said, and I took it to heart.

There's a common saying: "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing well."

That statement is wrong.

The correct version is "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing poorly"

By no doubt at this point you are going "Wha...?". I shall explain.

If something is worth doing, it's still worth doing even if you fail. If assassinating the Evil Overlord is worth doing, isn't it still worth the attempt if you only wound him and die afterwards? If you plan to make a million dollars, but only make $500,000, wasn't it still a good try? If you write a novel and it only sells a few thousand, isn't touching a few thousand lives enough?

The thing is, that no one will ever see your dream if you don't write it down. And if you hold yourself to a level of godly perfection, you'll never finish writing it down. At some point just you have to say, "No more rewrites, this is enough."

And so what if it is still flawed? Every book is flawed in some way. Take 1984. The characters are flat and boring, and Orwell himself said "I am not a real novelist". But that didn't stop it from becoming a literary classic! Just think of all the ideas from it that have entered the mainstream: Doublethink, the Thought Police, Big Brother, the list goes on...

Or the Lord of The Rings. Without it we wouldn't have DF, or D&D, or pretty much any fantasy novel that came after it. Yet it is legendary for its obtuse writing and the random interjection of Elf Poetry. That didn't stop it at all.

Every writer has their weaknesses. Don't let your ones get in the way of your strengths.

Well, I hope this rant helped someone...

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Fenrir

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2008, 12:17:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>Yet it is legendary for its obtuse writing and the random interjection of Elf Poetry.</STRONG>
Don't forget the fact that that loser Tolkien stole everything in there from somewhere else!
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Gigalith

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2008, 01:54:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>Don't forget the fact that that loser Tolkien stole everything in there from somewhere else!</STRONG>

And now everyone steals from Tolkien. It's one giant genericness fest.

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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Game design 'moods' and autism?
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2008, 02:04:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>The correct version is "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing poorly"</STRONG>

Agreed. This is how I was trained as a writer, and it's one of the most valuable lessons you can take home when following a creative endeavor.

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