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[wierd]

Brown recluse venom contains an enzyme that breaks down certain cellular membranes. As Sadrice pointed out, adipose tissue (fat) is more heavily affected by the enzyme than other kinds of tissue.  It is the necrotic tissue that poses the problem-- It provides a nutrient rich medium in which an opportunistic infection can occur. Things like Staph Aureous, which normally lives on the surface of the skin. This secondary infection causes runaway inflammation, which causes further tissue degeneration. Debriding the wound removes the necrotic tissue, removing the growth medium for the secondary infection.

As sadrice pointed out, they normally want to keep the necrotic tissue present, because it provides scaffolding for new tissue regeneration, where otherwise only scartissue can form. To accomplish this, the would needs to be kept clean and dry.  However, really large areas of necrosis, and or deep tissue necrosis, are just too hard to keep infection out of.  It is one of the reasons why pressure sores are potentially so deadly.

A very large dose of the enzyme (From a VERY large spider) would cause nerve damage as the fatty components of the neural bundle were digested- leading to severe damage to the central nervous system, paralysis, and death.

[Naryar]

Well, I don't think giant brown recluse spiders have deadlier venom in-game than brown recluse spiders.

Anyways judging that a brown recluse spider is size 1 (that means 1 gram, it should be a bit heavier IRL) in-game, and a giant one is size 200000 (200 kg's), then as it's weight is multiplied by 200000, it's size should be multiplied by the the third root of 200000, which is 59 and so.

So it would mean that it would be only 59cm across. Well, that's pretty fucking huge for a spider, but it's not Carboniferous giant spider huge or D&D giant spider huge (well, only the Small ones) or bigger than a dwarf, so it should indeed not attack dwarves. Considering the brown recluse is a hunting spider, it wouldn't be especially territorial due to webs either...

At least I think I did the math right. No, spiders are not squares, but i think the dimensions are preserved.

edit: Now that I have done research, Megarachne WASN'T a giant spider but a giant sea scorpion. 

[Sadrice]

Sphingomyelinase, which is the category of enzymes recluse venoms belong to, are used in your body for various things.  They break down sphingomyelin, an important part of (among other things) the myelin sheath around your nerves.  Unfortunately, one of the breakdown products is ceramide, which is used as a regulator for apoptosis (programmed cell death, basically cells committing suicide).  This is usually a good thing, as your body automatically uses this to remove the tiny cancers that everyone gets all the time without realizing it, but if some asshole (like a spider) decides to flood your tissues with apoptosis inducers, the affected tissues will promptly follow their orders and kill themselves.  Cells are kinda like dwarves, in a way.

EDIT: wait, you think a spider less than a meter across will weigh 200kg?  That's about 2 feet across and 450 lbs, if you are more familiar with US measurements.  I think you may have done your math wrong.

[wierd]

Yup, But again, the issue is the size relation to the prey of said spider, which determines the spider's action when confronted with web agitation.

Hunting spiders are known to take down some pretty big prey sometimes. For instance, I have seen very large female wolfspiders take down mice, and tarantulas take down birds.

A very large brown recluse would probably have "normal prey" of about the size of small animals, like cats, dogs, pygmy potbelly pigs, and the like. ("Very large" being about the body size of a saint bernard dog or so, minus the legs. Just abdominal and cephalothorax size combined) One big enough to take down a dwarf would need to be bigger than this. Say, the size of a shetland pony or bigger. 

the 200kg weight class would suggest shetland pony size.

[Naryar]

Yeah, my calculations are wrong.

Let's try another way. If I consider that the spider has nine parts (to make it simple): main body (cephalothorax, abdomen) and eight legs.

Assume that each leg is five percent of the total weight of the spider (I'm pretty sure it would be less) for a 200kg DF giant spider, each leg would be 10kg and the spider's body would be 120kg.

That would mean the body would be as big as two small humans, and therefore pretty massive.  Something like a sphere (abdomen, keeping it simple) between 25 and 30 cm in radius, who would be not far from 100 kg. That's 50-60 in diameter. The rest would be the thorax, around 10-15 kg. (seems in proportions)

If I keep proportions, and let's say an average spider have legs about twice as long as her abdomen is big, that means the spider should be around 2,5 meters in width.

... Yeah, seems like something who WOULD hunt dwarves. And seems just about right for a giant cave spider. fuck damnit so big

[Tygroux]

I checked into the wiki.
They are bigger than a llama, half the size of a horse. Tiger sized.
I would say slightly bigger than the spiders in Harry Potter.

Definitely big enough to take a dwarf for a tasty breakfast.
But definitely killable by a skilled, unwebbed soldier.

Well, as long as there is only one at least...

[Pirate Santa]

I thought Drop Bears killed the tourists?

Only the stupid ones that don't use the precautions we've developed. Now smear this Vegemite on your face and you'll be fine, Drop Bears can't stand the smell.

[wierd]

Just use an umbrella. Preferably a horribly coloured one, that will scare them away. Stay away from halls mentholated cough drops, because they contain eucalyptus oil, which is attractive to the drop bears.

(LOL, been here, done this--- I have an internet pen-pal in QLD. The dropbear joke has already been pulled.)

The giant brown recluse spiders though---- Those things would have to prey on deer to stay that big. Imagine an egg sack hatching with those things though!  Unless they have a crazy long lifespan, the infants would probably be the size of adult recluse spiders! I can just imagine a few hundred thousand of those things busting out of a big silken ball, and catching a stiff wind outside a high savagery forest.

[Maw]

(LOL, been here, done this--- I have an internet pen-pal in QLD. The dropbear joke has already been pulled.)

Hee Hee!

[Thisfox]

Their venom causes necrosis but the real scary part is that it never stops. Venoms are normally broken down by the body or just use themselves up causing their damage, however brown recluse venom works forever. It just keeps on spreading and killing flesh around the bite until either a doctor cuts a big enough chunk out of you to stop it or secondary infection kills you.

This is not actually true.  The wounds take a long time to heal, and they sometimes debride the necrotic tissue, but that's to prevent infection if it starts to get a bit rotten.  However, they certainly don't cut the venom out, or anything.  They actually prefer to leave the necrotic tissue in place, to protect the wound and aid in healing.  If you have to debride it all, especially in a deep wound, where it would be more necessary, it will leave a huge open hole that will take forever to heal properly, and will tend to scar badly.

Thankfully recluses are very timid and non aggressive (hence the name), and the vast majority of bites do not become necrotic, and even the majority of necrotic bites heal alright.  However, in rare cases the necrosis can become systemic (more common in fat people, since it destroys fat tissue preferentially), and can start breaking down tissue all throughout your body.  Understandably, this is not much fun.  See wikipedia's take on it for some good information and gory photos.

There are some interesting anticoagulant colubrid snake venoms that can last a long ass time.  There's a japanese snake, the Yamakagashi, that can cause lethal internal bleeding several months after a bite.  It's an interesting snake because it eats toads and sequesters their poison, making it one of the few snakes that is both venomous and poisonous (garter snakes that eat highly toxic newts can be poisonous as well, using tetrodotoxin, a really cool paralytic neurotoxin usually found in marine organisms, like pufferfish (deadly sushi!) and blue ringed octopus.  Garter snakes are also mildly venomous, though I don't think they use TTX in their venom).  I'm pretty sure I read about an african bird snake (Thelotornis) causing serious clotting problems up to several years after the bite, but I can't find my reference for that, so I might be making that up.

These injuries remind me of that of the yellowtip and whitetip spiders, found in Sydney garages. I know two people who have experienced these bites and had to have a cure which involves repeated removal of the fast progressing necrotic tissue. Tried to find THAT on wikipedia and it says that it's attributed to infection, not the spider, which means that my brother, wandering around with a scar the size of an orange, and stories of the spider he killed, is a liar... which I find a tad far fetched. I told him he should have pickled the thing... Interesting that there are similar species in other countries. Redbacks have black widows, yellowtips have the brown recluse... Always nice to know we're not alone.

(LOL, been here, done this--- I have an internet pen-pal in QLD. The dropbear joke has already been pulled.)

Hee Hee!

Ah yes, but did they tell you about hoop snakes, or perhaps MinMin, or even the Hexham Grey, a breed of biting mosquito so large that chickenwire can be used to keep it out of you verandah?

[Sadrice]

As far as I can tell, recluse spiders are the only spiders to have confirmed necrotic venom, but there's a lot of spiders and not all that much grant money for arachnology.  I found the White tip spider you mentioned, but what is the yellow tip?  Is it this glorious beast?  If so, that's an orb weaver, and likelihood of necrosis or significant venom is pretty low.

Venomous animals in general, and spiders in particular, are major targets for popular mythology and urban legends, even among medical personnel.  I'm from california, and there's a massive popular belief that brown recluses are present here, biting people, and causing horrible wounds.  There are no brown recluses in california.  About 6 have been found ever, pretty much all closely connected to recent moves or shipments from the midwest (recluses are reclusive.  What happens when you take out all your furniture and the only dark place left is in your moving boxes?).  Despite that, there have been thousands of diagnosed recluse bites, that all turned out to be things like staph aureus, early stage syphilis, lyme disease, etc.  All things that could have been effectively treated if people weren't dumbasses.  It's almost worse with snakes, but I won't get into that rant.

[Thisfox]

As far as I can tell, recluse spiders are the only spiders to have confirmed necrotic venom, but there's a lot of spiders and not all that much grant money for arachnology.  I found the White tip spider you mentioned, but what is the yellow tip?  Is it this glorious beast?  If so, that's an orb weaver, and likelihood of necrosis or significant venom is pretty low.

No, it's not that glorious beast, nor all that glorious. I was told it was a "relative of a white tip", by a medical person when my brother was at the "oh god we might have to remove his leg" stage of the experience (They did not, in fact, remove the leg, yay!), and I don't know its Linaean name, so I'm at a bit of a loss. Golden orbs are pretty, but not considered dangerous over here. I love their webs, except when I walk into them at an ungodly hour of the morning.

Venomous animals in general, and spiders in particular, are major targets for popular mythology and urban legends, even among medical personnel.  I'm from california, and there's a massive popular belief that brown recluses are present here, biting people, and causing horrible wounds.  There are no brown recluses in california.  About 6 have been found ever, pretty much all closely connected to recent moves or shipments from the midwest (recluses are reclusive.  What happens when you take out all your furniture and the only dark place left is in your moving boxes?).  Despite that, there have been thousands of diagnosed recluse bites, that all turned out to be things like staph aureus, early stage syphilis, lyme disease, etc.  All things that could have been effectively treated if people weren't dumbasses.  It's almost worse with snakes, but I won't get into that rant.

Yeah, it's a problem here, especially with the Australian folk tradition of playing up the venomous beasts we really do have (the only venomous mammal, for instance) and even inventing new ones (hoop snakes and drop bears only being the most famous. There's also everything from Nargun and MinMin onwards. We steal a lot from the local indigenous population, who also play this game). Add to that there are real things like Hexham Greys and random unfortunate incidents involving leeches of varied size, and folk stories get blown all out of proportion...

My brothers leg is an example which I was informed is quite common. He was moving boxes in a garage, got bitten, immediately sought medical advice, was told it was nothing and the bite was carefully sterilised "just in case". It wasn't nothing, so he went in the next day, with a much more large and angry looking wound, was again examined and sterilised, and was told he'd be fine, it was nothing. He went in again, day 3, to show off what was fast becoming necrotic tissue, and was told "oh no, you didn't give it medical aid when you were meant to...." and proceeded to watch everyone panic for the next few weeks while his thigh rotted. Not as bad as a dorf hospital I guess... I seem to remember him telling me that the spider he killed, and attributed to the injury, was less than an inch across, including legs, and was what Aussies on the East Coast call yellow tip spiders, due to a sort of yellowish splash on the end of their abdomen. Family opinion: He killed the spider and it cursed his flesh to die and rot. Don't kill spiders.

I agree completely with the dark place when moving boxes comment. Poor little bastards don't have a lot of options open to them, and they're so small, we don't usually see them untill too late.

[Sadrice]

There are actually a few other venomous mammals.  The Slow Loris is a weird southeast asian primate that secretes nasty toxins from a gland near its armpit.  When harrassed, it puts its arms above its head in a rather cute pose, that allows it to lick its glands before biting the crap out of you, causing extensive swelling and pain ad possible anaphylactic shock.  Its basically really hardcore dander.  Also, many shrews are venomous, and store caches of comatose prey, mostly various insects and worms and stuff, but also the occasional small rodent.  Shrews also echolocate.  Shrews are the coolest.  You could even argue that vampire bats' anticoagulant saliva counts as venom, but that might be stretching definitions a bit.

[wierd]

As far as I can tell, recluse spiders are the only spiders to have confirmed necrotic venom, but there's a lot of spiders and not all that much grant money for arachnology.  I found the White tip spider you mentioned, but what is the yellow tip?  Is it this glorious beast?  If so, that's an orb weaver, and likelihood of necrosis or significant venom is pretty low.

Venomous animals in general, and spiders in particular, are major targets for popular mythology and urban legends, even among medical personnel.  I'm from california, and there's a massive popular belief that brown recluses are present here, biting people, and causing horrible wounds.  There are no brown recluses in california.  About 6 have been found ever, pretty much all closely connected to recent moves or shipments from the midwest (recluses are reclusive.  What happens when you take out all your furniture and the only dark place left is in your moving boxes?).  Despite that, there have been thousands of diagnosed recluse bites, that all turned out to be things like staph aureus, early stage syphilis, lyme disease, etc.  All things that could have been effectively treated if people weren't dumbasses.  It's almost worse with snakes, but I won't get into that rant.

I live in Kansas-- They are EVERYWHERE, and come indoors in the fall.  They favor wood floors and stairwells, old folded sheets and towels in cabinets, and old pairs of shoes.  They are also frequent finds in sinks and the bathtub.  (I wash more than 6 of them down the drain every year.  I encourage wolf spiders to take up residence to help discourage their presence.)

[Thisfox]

There are actually a few other venomous mammals.  The Slow Loris is a weird southeast asian primate that secretes nasty toxins from a gland near its armpit.  When harrassed, it puts its arms above its head in a rather cute pose, that allows it to lick its glands before biting the crap out of you, causing extensive swelling and pain ad possible anaphylactic shock.  Its basically really hardcore dander.  Also, many shrews are venomous, and store caches of comatose prey, mostly various insects and worms and stuff, but also the occasional small rodent.  Shrews also echolocate.  Shrews are the coolest.  You could even argue that vampire bats' anticoagulant saliva counts as venom, but that might be stretching definitions a bit.

Awesome! Our venomous mammal is the Platypus, which while also adorable, has large nasty spurs on the hind legs of the male, with venom. Australia: One of the few examples of where the male is more deadly than the female. In game, I really do wish we were able to have weaponised giant war platypus... Although they'd be hell to train. I love the wombats.

Fruit bats in Oz are only dangerous as they are the only beast with rabies here (and even then, it's not the same as the rabies found in dogs in the rest of the world). We have some serious quarantines to keep the rest of such diseases out.

I encourage wolf spiders to take up residence to help discourage their presence.

I encourage huntsman spiders for the same reason: They tend to predate on other spiders. Very useful trait. Their bite is painful, but not life threatening, and if we have them living high on our walls, we leave them there, with the hope they'll do us a favour.