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Author Topic: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders  (Read 5183 times)

omega_dwarf

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Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« on: February 05, 2015, 11:43:51 pm »

Wouldn't want to meet this guy in a dark alley...or anywhere...

http://imgur.com/oduQlDN (How do I make it display as an image?)

Proooobably been posted before, but oh god.

There are also hippos on this embark. Good thing I'm only doing it to test a mod I'm working on...

Thisfox

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2015, 02:24:09 am »

It might be my Australianess speaking, but I'm confused as to why you're worried about meeting a brown recluse spider web in a dark alley. Are the webs like golden orbs? Those stretch across my garden, metres wide, for weeks, unless I walk into them by accident. But they're not dangerous. Now a funnel web, a funnel web is dangerous, but it doesn't make the big webby webs that everyone doesn't like walking into...

Hippos can be exciting. I've had rhinos, and we basically used them as entry-level protection: They killed numerous werebeasts before they ever arrived at my fortifications.

You make it display as an image by enclosing it in those square brackets, or place the link, highlight it, then click on the "image" button above the smilies when you're typing your message. Try hitting preview to check if it worked.
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Pirate Santa

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2015, 02:50:05 am »

It might be my Australianess speaking, but I'm confused as to why you're worried about meeting a brown recluse spider web in a dark alley. Are the webs like golden orbs? Those stretch across my garden, metres wide, for weeks, unless I walk into them by accident. But they're not dangerous. Now a funnel web, a funnel web is dangerous, but it doesn't make the big webby webs that everyone doesn't like walking into...
I agree Brown Recluses are quite tame. I would not want to run into a funnel web though. And I'm perfectly happy never meeting another Redback ever again.
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abysmalduke

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 03:15:11 am »

Good thing that these giant brown recluse spiders are not about aggressive as other giant animals. Nothing to worry about for the moment, but take it with caution as they are deadlier than their smaller counterparts.
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Maw

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 04:40:21 am »

It might be my Australianess speaking, but I'm confused as to why you're worried about meeting a brown recluse spider web in a dark alley. Are the webs like golden orbs? Those stretch across my garden, metres wide, for weeks, unless I walk into them by accident. But they're not dangerous. Now a funnel web, a funnel web is dangerous, but it doesn't make the big webby webs that everyone doesn't like walking into...

Hippos can be exciting. I've had rhinos, and we basically used them as entry-level protection: They killed numerous werebeasts before they ever arrived at my fortifications.
<snip>

As a fellow Australian I'm confused...

Is the last line talking about our home or something in DF?
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Thisfox

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 06:00:19 am »

whups, no the hippos and rhinos is definitely a DF thing. Crocodiles would be an Australia thing, but they're just there to kill off the tourists, not the werebeasts...
Sorry, I didn't reread when I posted that and I realise now it is a remarkably bad series of statements.  :D
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Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
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Verjigorm

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 07:50:37 am »

I thought Drop Bears killed the tourists?
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escondida

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2015, 11:00:20 am »

O.P., I'm with you. I was bitten by a brown recluse as a kid, and my parents didn't sugar-coat the danger I was in. Luckily, I wound up with no permanent damage...except a strong desire to know exactly what kind of spider I'm looking at whenever I see one, so I know whether it's safe.
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fearlesslittletoaster

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 11:03:57 am »

It might be my Australianess speaking, but I'm confused as to why you're worried about meeting a brown recluse spider web in a dark alley. Are the webs like golden orbs?

Oddly enough the Brown Recluse (in real life) is one of the like... three or four poisonous animals that does NOT live in Australia. They do however live where I do. For the most part they are very non-agressive and hard to find (hence recluse) but of somebody does get bitten the results are downright horrific.

Their venom causes necrosis but the real scary part is that it never stops. Venoms are normally broken down by the body or just use themselves up causing their damage, however brown recluse venom works forever. It just keeps on spreading and killing flesh around the bite until either a doctor cuts a big enough chunk out of you to stop it or secondary infection kills you. 
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Naryar

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2015, 12:02:08 pm »

Yeah, the giant brown recluse spiders are nonaggressive. Their venom on the other hand is another matter.

You should dig a bit and have fun with giant cave spiders. Really.

Huntthetroll

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 12:30:37 pm »

Giant cave spiders are such wonderful beasts.  I am trying to capture a breeding pair so that I can send them and their children against the next siege, mostly for the lulz.
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Sadrice

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2015, 02:45:55 pm »

Their venom causes necrosis but the real scary part is that it never stops. Venoms are normally broken down by the body or just use themselves up causing their damage, however brown recluse venom works forever. It just keeps on spreading and killing flesh around the bite until either a doctor cuts a big enough chunk out of you to stop it or secondary infection kills you.
This is not actually true.  The wounds take a long time to heal, and they sometimes debride the necrotic tissue, but that's to prevent infection if it starts to get a bit rotten.  However, they certainly don't cut the venom out, or anything.  They actually prefer to leave the necrotic tissue in place, to protect the wound and aid in healing.  If you have to debride it all, especially in a deep wound, where it would be more necessary, it will leave a huge open hole that will take forever to heal properly, and will tend to scar badly.

Thankfully recluses are very timid and non aggressive (hence the name), and the vast majority of bites do not become necrotic, and even the majority of necrotic bites heal alright.  However, in rare cases the necrosis can become systemic (more common in fat people, since it destroys fat tissue preferentially), and can start breaking down tissue all throughout your body.  Understandably, this is not much fun.  See wikipedia's take on it for some good information and gory photos.

There are some interesting anticoagulant colubrid snake venoms that can last a long ass time.  There's a japanese snake, the Yamakagashi, that can cause lethal internal bleeding several months after a bite.  It's an interesting snake because it eats toads and sequesters their poison, making it one of the few snakes that is both venomous and poisonous (garter snakes that eat highly toxic newts can be poisonous as well, using tetrodotoxin, a really cool paralytic neurotoxin usually found in marine organisms, like pufferfish (deadly sushi!) and blue ringed octopus.  Garter snakes are also mildly venomous, though I don't think they use TTX in their venom).  I'm pretty sure I read about an african bird snake (Thelotornis) causing serious clotting problems up to several years after the bite, but I can't find my reference for that, so I might be making that up.
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wierd

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2015, 03:30:14 pm »

Hmm.. I'd say the danger level of a "Giant" brown recluse would depend on just how giant the spider is.

Recluse spiders make "Cobweb" like filaments on the ground and walls, which they use as tactile movement sensors. A bit like a funnel-web, but not as sophisticated. Unlike a funnel web, which will aggressively bite anything that enters its web and disturbs it (Like a human foot!) recluse spiders act more like orb-web spiders in their behaviour toward "very large" agitation of their webs. They hide.

Like the majority of spiders, brown recluse is territorial.

With a very large spider, it's instinct to feed vs flee would be dependant upon its size, and the size of the potential prey.  For "Truly OMG enormous!" spiders, this could be big enough that a dwarf entering the web would be dangerous.  However, your typical brown recluse does not get much bigger than 1.5cm across, including legs.  A "Giant" one, could be perhaps 10cm across, including legs.  (10x bigger!) We would need a spider close to 10m across, including legs, to consider a dwarf to be possibly tasty.

Now, a giant version of the australian funnelweb spider? OMG-- VERY DANGEROUS.
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Sadrice

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2015, 03:34:25 pm »

Oh right, forgot to mention that, got distracted by snakes and sphingomyelinase (it's mechanism of action is really cool!).  I imagine a giant brown recluse would be much more aggressive, and also with giant fangs and giant venom glands, necrosis will be more or less guaranteed, and is unlikely to remain localized in the skin like it would with a normal sized spider.
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fearlesslittletoaster

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Re: Oh, Sweet Armok, the Spiders
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2015, 04:37:53 pm »

Actual research and stuff.

That's good to know, thank you for doing real research. I drew my information from a co-worker who got bitten and he did NOT have a good time. Maybe things got badly infected or something, but they had to cut a big piece out of him to stop the bite from spreading. He claimed he got his info from the ER doctor but apparently not...
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