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[Kanil]

Even in their preferred, close-quarters environment...

The UrbanMech's preferred environment isn't a city, but rather a BV-based matchmaking system.

Urbies do really well when their BV means they typically get pitted against things like Locusts which don't have range and don't like eating AC/10 shells. Once you expect them to do anything other than pick on other very light 'mechs, they fall apart.

[Robsoie]

Though I don't quite know how they seem to have this "joke robot" reputation.

Light mechs main (and only) survival asset is their high mobility that allow them to sprint around the map so much that they're harder to hit with the rolls, or get fast into the back of the battlefield to attack your artillery/support .

I guess that's the reason the UrbanMechs are considered a joke is that they are a light mech (so explode easily) -but- that are extremely slow (all the 100tons slow assault mechs, like the Atlas are faster that them ! ) , so any weaponry fired in their direction is very likely to hit them as the hit rolls will not be that much getting target speed malus, and they're not going to be any kind of threat to your support fire mechs/tanks

[Anvilfolk]

On the other hand, if you're taking a city, turn a corner and stumble face to face with one, that AC/20 will make you pay


It's too bad the AC/20 has such a short range though. Otherwise it would better serve a purpose of area denial, say in a thick forest, while your other mechs battle it out. If the enemies try to flank, they might just get an AC/20 to the face... they rarely will, but hey, it's a deterrent...

[Robsoie]

The best way to use an UrbanMech if you do not have at least 3 or 4 urbanmechs for each of your opponent heavy ones in my opinion is to leave it to someone else and get into your heavy/assault mech instead

[Sharp]

Or you could get a Saladin Hovertank which has more manouverability so even in an Urban environment it can still flank and it packs an AC/20 so it can be a threat to heavy mechs.

Faster then an Urbie, packs more or equal punch (although inability to punch), and even has more armour on parts, although less overall. Only real advantage Urbie has is jumping but that doesn't get the UrbanMech very far.

Urbies are basically walking deathtraps.

[Kanil]

The Saladin isn't exactly flawless, though. No armor on it's side or rear, skids a lot, and has to spend move points getting into a firing arc... and it costs 100 more BV.

[ndkid]

The Saladin isn't exactly flawless, though. No armor on it's side or rear, skids a lot, and has to spend move points getting into a firing arc... and it costs 100 more BV.

If you're setting up a random "equal side" fight scenario, sure, make the BV comparison. But if you're playing a Merc ATB campaign, I think it's a different question, because the Saladin costs about 2/3 of an Urbanmech. It's also worth noting that the vanilla Urbie is an AC/10, not an AC/20; Liao is the one who drops some armor to make the upgrade, which also ups the cost.

The fact that the Saladin has three vehicle crew versus a single mechwarrior for the Urbie probably means the Saladin's personnel costs are a little higher, but it'll be cheaper to maintain than the Urbanmech. If I had 3 millon C-Bills lying around to spend, I'd definitely take three Saladins over 2 Urbanmechs of either variety. And if you told me I had to fight a battle in one of the two, I think I'd rather be in a speedy Saladin than a plodding Urbanmech.

Even going by BV, if I had to fight a battle with five Saladins or six Urbies, I think I still go with the Saladins.

I don't agree with your fundamental point though, Kanil; neither is the most effective use of BV. (The Saladin may be high in terms of C-Bill efficiency... I haven't thought about it in a really long time.)

[Knave]

I'd say just take to the field in a few Yellowjackets and plink everyone from a distance with your giant death cannons.

[Neonivek]

Even in their preferred, close-quarters environment, their low speed and tiny jump radius makes them vulnerable. They don't really have the firepower to threaten heavy and assault mechs, and light and medium mechs can generally outmaneuver them. Plus they look like a giant R2D2... or a beercan on legs.

They aren't built to "Outmaneuver" anything. They are purely defensive mechs with JUST enough speed to go in and out of cover.

And yeah they do look like a giant R2D2 because they are almost literally a heavily armored weapons platform.

And yeah they aren't going to do much to Assaults and Heavy. They aren't really meant to. They aren't Chaff

I don't agree with your fundamental point though, Kanil; neither is the most effective use of BV. (The Saladin may be high in terms of C-Bill efficiency... I haven't thought about it in a really long time.)

I don't like to use Battle value as anything except in a game sense. Since all Battlevalue is, is a "General idea" of how useful a mech is, in a straight up battle assuming numerous factors.

Yet once you start to play the system in a variety of conditions that can vary drastically. You kind of realize that Battlevalue is quite deceptive. Even High BV mechs often fail in different scenarios (A great one is icey conditions with either sight limitations or intervening terrain)

[etgfrog]

Hm...guass cannons, I'll have to look into those for the mekhq. Then again, it might clash with the all laser thing I've been doing. A mech like a firestarter with 12 small lasers is both silly and scary. I think I'll try outfitting a warhammer with a guass on each arm along with a case.

[Kanil]

But if you're playing a Merc ATB campaign, I think it's a different question...

Fair enough, BV is a more relevant concern in the MekWars thread. When comparing the two units more directly, it probably depends on what they're fighting against. The Saladin is worse off against a Locust, but fares much better against a Wolfhound than the UM-R60L will. I suppose my point was more that the Saladin looks a lot better on paper than it does in practice, rather than that the UM-R60L is a good 'mech (it's not.)

I don't agree with your fundamental point though, Kanil; neither is the most effective use of BV.

I think you're underestimating the value of a low BV AC/10 turret. 500 BV is Locust/Wasp/Commando territory, and none of those things like getting smacked with an AC/10. 'course I'd rather field something like a Po tank for that role, but the UM-R60 genuinely works there.

[Erkki]

I understand that in a mercenary campaign everything revolves around C-Bills... But IMHO, the costs quite often make little to no sense. Using C-Bills as the only meter, theres a lot of equipment that is plain useless because of their high cost. For example the only thing that lets Light and Extra Light Fusion Engines have any niche use at all is that a mech bay on a dropship usually costs more than any mech.

Sure there are some unit concepts that just cant be done without an XLE but still, it usually isnt worth double or triple the C-Bill price tag. Just look at something like the Men Shen Omni'Mech: 55-ton 6/9(12) unit with at best mediocre firepower yet still questionable durability for 16 to 17 million C-Bills.

Or just think about the awful, awful World of Blake mechs such as the Deva that is 20 million a piece because thanks to the LFE, heavy gyro, targeting computer etc.

So yeah outside of a mercenary campaign I think its better to just let stuff cost nothing, balance by BV if its multiplayer like MekWars, and have units, tech and personnel assigned to the unit by the parent faction.

[Robsoie]

With the various DF things happening during gameplay

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I made me wonder, as mechs lose mechanical limbs on a regular basis, does the Battletech rules have something about picking up items from ground and either throwing them or using it for melee (as there are some mechs , present in Megamek too, come with melee weapons) ?

[Sharp]

I am unsure if the possibility exists in MekHQ but is there anywhere you can strip down a salvaged/damaged/unwanted mech for use as scrap parts?

Trying to restore salvaged mechs can be a bit expensive and I might as well use some of the more damaged mechs for spare parts instead of buying new parts from the market and waiting for them to arrive.

[Xardalas]

I am unsure if the possibility exists in MekHQ but is there anywhere you can strip down a salvaged/damaged/unwanted mech for use as scrap parts?

Trying to restore salvaged mechs can be a bit expensive and I might as well use some of the more damaged mechs for spare parts instead of buying new parts from the market and waiting for them to arrive.

You can. In the repair rbay of mekhq, right click on it and set it to salvage. But parts from a 30 ton mech will ONLY work in a thirty ton mech.