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Author Topic: crossbowmen still not using bolts  (Read 2020 times)

Romegypt

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crossbowmen still not using bolts
« on: January 31, 2015, 11:31:59 am »

Like the title. I assigned a guy to a squad that uses crossbows, but he still won't go pick up the crossbow, the bolts or the quiver. I know they have to be in civ mode to train. But I need help when I want him to go kill something.
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GhostDwemer

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 03:07:56 pm »

They do NOT have to be in civ mode to train! Ugh, I wish people would stop spreading this rumor. Active squads with a barracks will use targets. My dwarves are doing it right now.

Standard checklist:

1. Do they have crossbows?
2. Do they have quivers?
3. Do they have bolts? Lots of them?
4. Are the bolts accessible?
5. Is the target set to the correct direction?
6. Is there a path to the target from that direction?
7. (for active training) Does the squad also have a separate barracks?

It actually sounds like the problem is that you are using "civ mode." He probably has another job to do. Wait long enough and he might go get the equipment. This is why the "Dwarves need to be in civ mode to train xbows" rumor is so annoying.
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Thisfox

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2015, 04:52:39 pm »

I've been admiring a few excellent bows we just bought from the merchants (we had a total surplus of purchasing power, and the bows and arrows were right there, so I bought them. No one seems to want to use them, even when I assigned a few dorfs to learning how to use the things, but I thought it would be a fun role play to have a bow wielding fort. I guess I need a lot more arrows... I figure I'll just make a crossbow squad till I can find a good reliable source of more arrows.

2. Do they have quivers?

Do the quivers have to be specifically assigned in uniform (if so, how?), or do you just make them accessible and available and wait? Do they have to be made in-fort, or will merchant quivers do?

They do NOT have to be in civ mode to train! Ugh, I wish people would stop spreading this rumor. Active squads with a barracks will use targets. My dwarves are doing it right now.

I think it might have been started by people assuming that it was that they needed to be "assigned to barracks". Add to that the fact that civilian hunters will wander about shooting bolts into things, and so it goes on....
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GhostDwemer

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2015, 05:05:18 pm »

I believe having projectiles assigned assigns quivers. I just meant, are there actually enough quivers available?

It's amazing how many false things people believe about this game. Not me, though. Never been wrong about the game... Oh wait, I'm thinking of Quietust, not me. I'm wrong all the time, hehe.
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mobucks

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 06:36:43 pm »

It's not a rumor that they train in CIV mode.

If you only want them to practice archery at a range than CIV mode is the way to go.

If you want them sparring all the time and training other skills at the barracks, while maybe taking a break from that to shoot a target practice, Active/Training is the way to go.

I usually keep them inactive (CIV) for a few levels of skill at the target ranges and then switch them over to barracks training.
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Obsidianos

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 06:45:53 pm »

Have you specified in the ammunition menu (f) in military screen what kind of ammo are they allowed to use?
I also had this problem in my last fort when i assigned a squad in marksdwarf outfit there was no default ammo setting...
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Rince Wind

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2015, 06:46:06 pm »

I just make them hunters until they are good enough. If they don't survive that, they wouldn't have been any good for the military anyway. pff
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GhostDwemer

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2015, 07:02:12 pm »

I didn't mean it is a rumor that they train while off duty. I meant it is a rumor that it is more efficient to do so, or that they won't practice at ranges unless they are off duty. You can have a crossbow  squad that is active/training, and they will practice at ranges quite frequently if things are set up right. Plus, they practice other important things, and spar, if you make them active. They just need a regular barracks as well as the targets. When set to inactive, even if you turn off all other labors, they may simply idle, depending on their personality (I think) rather than train. Civilian archery training seems to be more hit-or-miss than active training in my experience.
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Splint

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2015, 01:58:14 am »

Never once have I heard it being more efficient to have them train off duty. In fact as was said, it's pretty hit or miss and can sometimes be disruptive depending on the dwarf in question (I've had mayors who refused to talk to diplomats because they'd rather go to the practice range :P)

Took me ages to get a marksdwarf unit to train properly even after close to four years playing the game (in fact I didn't manage that, among other things, until last fall or summer.) This is how I found it to function.

  • Barracks designated off of whatever. Stand, rack, box, whatever.
  • Targets set up within that barracks room designation, and set them up for use (proper direction and the right squad(s) assigned.) Note that only one dwarf can use a target at a given time, so either be willing to accept this or make sure there's up to ten targets.
  • Make sure the squad(s) are assigned to use both the ranges and the barracks containing them, and again ensure the ranges are set up properly. Nothing quite like finding out the issue was your ranges being set to the wrong direction or you assigned the wrong unit to them (yes it happened to me. More times than I want to admit.  ::) )
  • Activate the squad or squads. They'll now use the ranges regularly as it's "inside" thier designated training area.

What I noticed was the ranges needed to be within the barracks "room" for the dwarves to use it while training. Otherwise they ended up as hammerdwarves/lords and needed to have new weapons made. I think it's because if the targets are outside the barracks area, the unit considers it an invalid place to practice while active. I could be wrong though. Now this doesn't mean when off duty they'll use the ranges more, but it does make them use it provided there's enough training ammo and ranges to go around. If you have other industries to cover trade, I recommend dumping every bone you get into making bolts for the job and setting metal ammo to combat only unless you have more than enough to cover training.

I find it also helps to check some or everyone in the marksdwarf unit individually for gear. If someone is missing something then you obviously need more and other dwarves may be missing that piece too. I wound up with an elite wrestler one time because I didn't know I was short a crossbow. He did explode heads with his fists though, which was pretty awesome.

Most importantly, ensure you have a huge surplus of practice ammo. Active squads can and will gobble up training munitions faster than it can be produced, especially if there's ample ranges for them to use. For all you know that's all that happened here. Your guys were training and they just pissed away all thier ammo at the range.

utunnels

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 02:12:57 am »

If they don't train, it is probably a bug.
For example, there are combat ammo in their quivers.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2015, 02:17:20 am »

My Dwarves tend to make it to the archery range eventually without any particular fiddling involved for whatever reason.

But I would repeat what someone else said earlier, making rangers seems to be the most effective way of getting legendary marksdwarves (and plenty of food).

My rangers just took out a Forgotten Flying Lobster with no casualties before the axedwarf militia got anywhere near (luckily they were all in the dining room when it came up the stairs).
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utunnels

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2015, 02:38:01 am »

You must be really lucky.
My squad of 4 legendary marksdorfs spent days to kill a single trapped FB.
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Romegypt

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2015, 12:54:58 pm »

you don't understand. They are training in the range fine. They just won't use their crossbows in actual combat. I told him to attack a hippo, and he just went and punched it a lot.
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pisskop

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2015, 12:56:31 pm »

You are sure they are set to use bolts in combat?  And that they choose to?  Sometimes dwarves just wanna hit stuff.
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Melting Sky

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Re: crossbowmen still not using bolts
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 02:11:29 pm »

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not but make sure that your ammo stock pile does not have bins in it. I don't know if the various bin bugs have been worked out in the newest versions or not but in the past I have had binned ammo cause serious issues with my marksdwarves simply not being able to find ammo.

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