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[Urist Tilaturist]

. . . And that's where dwarven babies come from.

No, or every dwarf would give birth every time she went for a dump, even if she were single. Imagine the outcry from thise players who do not like too many babies.

All mortal creatures who eat should also excrete, not just dwarves.

[Reelya]

That was a joke from pisskop. LAYS_UNUSUAL_EGGS make the creature lay objects of your choice, not actual "eggs". e.g. you can bring back the bug where chickens lay iron chairs instead of eggs using this tag...

[Urist Tilaturist]

How long ago was that bug? I know about making creatures create objects with strange eggs, but only as something players have modded in.

[Putnam]

I think that was Toady testing something, then accidentally keeping it in.

[Urist Tilaturist]

I think that was Toady testing something, then accidentally keeping it in.

What version was it in?

[Reelya]

Back in the 31.XX series. I think it was around the time that he brought in bees/hives too.

[lethosor]

It looks like 0.31.20, since it fixed a crash with unusual egg laying (which the throne-laying geese were intended to test), and 0.31.21 was released on the same day.

[diggingstickz]

Nobody wants poop in their fortress. I for one would be happy if never had to poop again irl.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Nobody wants poop in their fortress. I for one would be happy if never had to poop again irl.

Not only have several people on this thread expressed wanting sewage to be added, proving your statement wrong already, but if you never defecated again, you would fill with waste and die. Unless, that is, you received all nutrition intravenously.

[Deboche]

I think he means the people who actually live in the fortress.

[GoblinCookie]

Nobody wants poop in their fortress. I for one would be happy if never had to poop again irl.

At the moment I am inclined to agree that adding poop into dwarf fortress does not add anything other than more clutter on top of the existing clutter.

The proper time to add it into the fortress would be when Toady One adds a more detailed agriculture and soil mechanics than at present.  At the moment we have no distinction between topsoil and substrate and no measurement of soil nutrients.  We cannot have poop in the game until we have these things since we have nowhere for the poop to go, so it just adds to the endlessly increasing clutter than already infests the game. 

The same mechanism also works for the rest of the biodegradable clutter, such as bodies.  Bodies could also biodegrade into topsoil, adding nutrients as could things like fruit and dead plants. 

[Urist Tilaturist]

At the moment I am inclined to agree that adding poop into dwarf fortress does not add anything other than more clutter on top of the existing clutter.

The proper time to add it into the fortress would be when Toady One adds a more detailed agriculture and soil mechanics than at present.  At the moment we have no distinction between topsoil and substrate and no measurement of soil nutrients.  We cannot have poop in the game until we have these things since we have nowhere for the poop to go, so it just adds to the endlessly increasing clutter than already infests the game. 

The same mechanism also works for the rest of the biodegradable clutter, such as bodies.  Bodies could also biodegrade into topsoil, adding nutrients as could things like fruit and dead plants.

I agree with this; I am a supporter of sewage, but only if it has somewhere to go. Better farming is also on my wish list.

When sewage is released, it should be alongside better farming.

[GoblinCookie]

I agree with this; I am a supporter of sewage, but only if it has somewhere to go. Better farming is also on my wish list.

When sewage is released, it should be alongside better farming.

It also add challenge to stuff like long sieges, meaning that barricading yourself inside indefinately is no longer really a choice.  Without a sewage system in place the dwarves will stink the place up causing disease in your fortress, since they normally would do the deed outside without such a system. 

Things would biodegrade much slower in the dark and on stone as opposed to clay or sand.  The ability to gather up topsoil from outside would normally be essential to sustaining an initial underground farming effort, though there would be an initial rather low nutriant level, highest for peat, middle for clay and low for sand. 

Since you get back in sewage less than the nutriant value of the food fed to the dwarves, the only way to continue to grow underground plants would be constantly dig up new soil squares.  Yields from substrate would always be considerably lower than those with topsoil, meaning that it would not be long (well several) before a large population starves to death if all they can do is dig up more substrate squares to farm.

An external supply of nutrients, for instance fish from a river would generally be neccesery for the long-term sustainability of any underground farming system.  Topsoil on the surface however is constantly being replenished by creatures pooping, rotting away and a system of nitragen fixing based upon certain plants.  Rainwater can wash out nutriants and some of that rainwater drips down into the underground soil tiles, slowly adding nutriants.

[Urist Tilaturist]

This all sounds very good. Hopefully farming will get the update it deserves in DF2016 or some later version.

[Deboche]

It also add challenge to stuff like long sieges, meaning that barricading yourself inside indefinately is no longer really a choice.  Without a sewage system in place the dwarves will stink the place up causing disease in your fortress, since they normally would do the deed outside without such a system. 

Things would biodegrade much slower in the dark and on stone as opposed to clay or sand.  The ability to gather up topsoil from outside would normally be essential to sustaining an initial underground farming effort, though there would be an initial rather low nutriant level, highest for peat, middle for clay and low for sand. 

Not really, you can get rid of poop in magma or just shoot it out the walls into a river or moat.

As for underground farming there's a thread about what exactly makes plants grow underground. Is it magic, geothermal energy or some other factor we don't know? Anyway, we can assume having animals graze over a field would refertilize it and that underground there's the equivalent of the plants that make soil recover its fertility.

For me the interesting thing about poop is not so much fertilizing fields but rather having to deal with a very real variable in a simulation game of this sort. Garbage was one of the biggest challenges in Sim City games and in a fortress of hundreds of individuals living in tight spaces sewage would be crucial.

I'm also a sucker for providing rooms, entertainment, decoration and such for dwarves. Toilets would add to that.

It would make the game much more interesting even without considering the interesting things you can do to goblins and nobles.