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[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>I have an entire conspiracy theory about this. However, I've no concrete evidence to support it, nor do I think myself capable of presenting it in any sort of intelligent and believable way, so I'll keep it to myself.</STRONG>

... which suggests you may want to rethink your theory.  :p

[Old School Gamer]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG> I have an entire conspiracy theory about this. However, I've no concrete evidence to support it, nor do I think myself capable of presenting it in any sort of intelligent and believable way, so I'll keep it to myself.</STRONG>

Hehe.. pretty much the same boat I'm in.  No way to know what's really going on, but damn sure that something's up.  A lot of people accept the official line on everything and don't give anything any thought beyond that, which is unfortunate;  because of this those who have 'bought in' expect those who see something's up to be burdened with the burden of proof, but it's really an unreasonable expectation.

But you can't ask someone to think beyond the surface, they can only look deeper on their own.

Check out this site: I'll call the link   An Explanation of Current Day American Dogmatism .  This guy's able to clearly state some of what's going on in a very lucid way, and he does get below the surface quite a ways, at least he lets you know what's going on, but he doesn't seem to know why anymore than anyone else does.

Edit: I Grammar'd wrong.

[ February 26, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

[Forumsdwarf]

quote:Shows about investigating crime scenes?

How does showing the consequence of violent crime to be inevitable punishment in any way glorify violence?  Unless you draw no distinction between criminal violence versus the use of violence by the state to subdue criminals?
The "victimless" subset of crimes feature one-sided state violence, but CSI doesn't investigate stoners' sewers for flushed marijuana -- they investigate murder.

quote:Television and movies were nothing 40 years ago like they are today.

True.  In the 1960's both pro-war and anti-war films ignored context in the preaching of their respective gospels.  Today monomania is strictly the province of anti-war films, if not outright conspiracy theories along the lines of "Fahrenheit 9/11".
Contrast that to the way "24" treated the characters of Behrooz and Dina Araz.

quote:We have no choice of what is be presented to us to consume

Can you truly not tell the difference between Dennis Miller and Jon Stewart?  Rush Limbaugh and Al Franken?  Bill O'Reilly and Randi Rhodes?  The Wall Street Journal and the New York Times?  National Review and The New Republic?  Claudia Rosett and Christiana Amanpour?  Those are all the same to you?

quote:and the vast majority of it is stuff which desensitizes us to violence.

To the degree hypersensitivity impairs objectivity this is a good thing.  A squeamish doctor won't save as many lives as a clear-headed one.  Reason is likewise our best tool for solving difficult geopolitical problems.

quote:Why do you think the US has so many domestic problems?  Why do you think so many of our citizens are in prison? Why do you think all these kids have shot each other up in high schools, and now in colleges

My first pass estimation is that we're too harsh on drug offenders and too easy on violent ones, particularly juveniles.  Consequences learned early are consequences learned well.
Schools also problematically conflate symbols of violence with actual violence.  An unauthorized squirtgun is not the same problem as one kid slamming another kid's face in a locker door.  They're not even the same category of problem.
School administrators, faced with the second problem, would as likely as not respond to it by having the locker doors removed.

quote:could consuming endless gluts of media where people are fucking each other up for glory have something to do with it?

I wasn't aware we invented boxing.
I don't dispute that bloodsport is popular; I dispute your contention we are somehow unique or extreme in our consumption of it.  The Romans would've laughed at the people we call "American Gladiators".

quote:the most war-mongering and controlling country on the planet?

What would the Russians have had to do to Grozny to win the "most war-mongering" prize?  Nuke it?
Russians are an example of a democratic people whose capacity for violence exactly equals the level of violence they believe most expedient to solving the problem at hand.  America hasn't fought that way since Nagasaki.

[Cthulhu]

I love Forumsdwarf, he has an answer for everything.

Hey Forumsdwarf, does a tree falling in the forest with no one around make a sound?
If everything in a room is painted blackest black of inky black blackness, and an invisible object begins emitting light, can you see anything?
What about the same room, but everything is mirrored?
Share your infinite knowledge with us!

[Gaulgath]

If a carp kills instantly in the river, and no one but the victim is there to notice it, can it get a name?

[Cthulhu]

Animals reproduce via spores, I think there's a similar thing going on with names.

[Old School Gamer]

All I saw there was a series of dismissals, some valid and some not really addressing what I'd actually said.

It's interesting that you bring up nukes, and our "good" country is the only one that ever killed 40,000 innocent civilians (or was it more?) in a blink of a second with one.. and to say that the good ole USA isn't that way anymore is just not true.  What other country sodomizes prisoners and waterboards people to death without any solid evidence, and then acts like it's no big deal?  We're a bunch of brutes here.  You can try to dismiss these statements as much as you want, but a witty reply only serves to take the issue out of sight, and that's exactly the kind of thing that is making americans completely blind to what our country is doing.

I saw an ad for an american musician that had written on a chalkboard in the background "we are the cause of a world that's gone wrong";... that pretty much sums it up.

Republicans, Democrats, all part of the same corporate web which is encircling the world;  it's almost considered heresy among most people to have a political view which is opposed to the corporatization of the globe, and gee, perhaps the reason is that corporations own the media, and the media influences our ways of thinking more than anything else ever could.

A witty comment or dismissal doesn't make it any less true.

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by Muffles:
<STRONG>Hey Forumsdwarf, does a tree falling in the forest with no one around make a sound?
If everything in a room is painted blackest black of inky black blackness, and an invisible object begins emitting light, can you see anything?
What about the same room, but everything is mirrored?
Share your infinite knowledge with us!</STRONG>

I can answer those.

1.  The tree makes a sound if you consider the wave itself "sound."  If you call "sound" the act of hearing that wave, then it doesn't.

2.  If the object is invisible, it does not emit light you can see.  If it emits light you can see, it's not invisible.  If it emits light you can't see but causes the walls to emit light you can see, via fluorescence, then yes, you can see something.

3.  If by mirrored you mean the room's surfaces are mirrors, then the only way you'd see anything is if you or your possessions (e.g. clothes) emitted visible light via fluorescence.  I think that's fluorescence, anyway.  I could be using the wrong word.

Yes, I'm retarded enough to answer silly questions that have nothing to do with the forum topic.

 

quote:Originally posted by Old School Gamer:
<STRONG>It's interesting that you bring up nukes, and our "good" country is the only one that ever killed 40,000 innocent civilians (or was it more?) in a blink of a second with one.. and to say that the good ole USA isn't that way anymore is just not true.</STRONG>

We're not the only ones to kill 40k or more innocents during a war.  I do agree, however, that yes, we are a pack of bastards.  We're not alone, though.

 

quote:What other country sodomizes prisoners and waterboards people to death without any solid evidence, and then acts like it's no big deal?

Those specific acts?  I don't know that anyone else has (not that's been recorded anyway).  Human rights abuses, especially with respect to prisoners?  I'm sure you'll find history is ripe with that, even modern history, and it's not just the US.  Again, we're bastards, but we're not alone.  We're just the big kids on the block in world politics (for the moment), so everything we do is visible.

 

quote:I saw an ad for an american musician that had written on a chalkboard in the background "we are the cause of a world that's gone wrong";... that pretty much sums it up.

That's like one random soldier trying to take credit for the army's victory, or one football player claiming he won the Super Bowl.  We are one factor among many.  Significant?  Sure, why not.  The sole factor?  Not a chance in hell.  To claim such trivializes the rest of the world.

[ February 26, 2008: Message edited by: Earthquake Damage ]

[Glaughdram]

Fact: Bears eat beets.

[Old School Gamer]

Fair enough Forumsdwarf..  What you've said makes plenty of sense.  Oh well, time to move deep into the forest and start foraging mushrooms and roots for food.  Peace!

[Cthulhu]

He doesn't even know Forumsdwarf never answered his question.

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by Muffles:
<STRONG>He doesn't even know Forumsdwarf never answered his question.</STRONG>

Clearly he saw a long post and assumed it was "yet another Forumsdwarf post" and, tired of the argument, decided to leave rather than read and respond.

[Old School Gamer]

I don't know where you get this strange idea about me not reading his answer, but I agree with you wholeheartedly.  Yet somehow I agree with Forumsdwarf as well, in an informed way.  So it is settled, then.  Roots and Shrubs for all!

[Forumsdwarf]

quote:all part of the same corporate web

Corporations compete.

quote:Share your infinite knowledge with us!

I'm more student than teacher.

quote:somehow I agree with Forumsdwarf as well, in an informed way.

I find myself changing my mind quite often when confronted with credible new information.  It's interesting to see the phenomenon cascade.

quote:Does a tree falling in the forest with no one around make a sound?

Does a dog whistle?

quote:If everything in a room is painted blackest black of inky black blackness, and an invisible object begins emitting light, can you see anything?

What direction?

quote:What about the same room, but everything is mirrored?

Its walls would no longer be black.

quote:You have an answer for everything, don't you?

I'm on a roll!  Don't jinx it.

[Old School Gamer]

That's the problem with having an open mind,  new information makes its way in quite often and then you have to rethink a million other things.

Makes me wish I'd been born when there were 5,000 people on the earth and the only thing to think about was "Now, just how can I catch that antelope over there and roast him up good?".

Nowadays there's just too many of us bastages around, we're all competing for the same piece of pie,  and it seems the system is biased towards people having to do things that they do not enjoy to survive.

(ie serving a large corporation just piling and unpiling papers all day in the same monotonous way ad infinitum week by week, and having to say every week "Oh joy, it's thursday again, soon it will be friday, and then once that's over I can pretend for a brief blink of a second that I am really free")

Something about that really irks me,  and the alternative, that being wearing a loincloth and foraging for berries while outrunning cave bears and singing war songs seems quite pleasant in comparison.

Why are people so afraid to have an opinion today which isn't gov'mt certified, and why is it that everytime the television is turned on I feel a building anger at the entire bullshit that streams out of the speakers and screen.

Our country is basically mirroring the arc that Germany took circa 1935+,  but people just seem to want to accept their dismal fate as corporate tool/slave and not actually stand up for anything anymore.

The declaration of independence took balls to sign when it was signed, we say that our country is the "home of the brave", but it really seems to be the home of the weak and limp, who are ruled by the avaricious tyrannical evil mothafuckers.

Yet somehow people are willing to show allegiance to this system.  Maybe there's not enough forest and berries to go around, or maybe it just would not be an easy enough existence for most of the overweight Mcdonald's eating tools that live in this country.

Clearly this planet has too many of us on it.

Edit: Take out bad grammar!  Me did Gud!

[ February 28, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]