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Author Topic: barrels vs pots and the wiki  (Read 8939 times)

Apostolos

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barrels vs pots and the wiki
« on: January 26, 2015, 07:35:57 am »

I was looking up storage capacity on the wiki and it is very misleading and confusing. It lists barrels as having a 6000 capacity and large pots as having the same in the quick reference chart.  However above the chart, it states that pots have more storage capacity.  Am I reading the chart wrong or what?  If so, where is the listed capacity for each?
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Bearskie

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 09:49:31 am »

I'm 90% sure pots have larger capacities than barrels, and are thus better for food storage.  In the case of booze however, only one 'stack' fits into each storage container, so it doesnt really matter whether you use pots or barrels.

KingBacon

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 01:03:34 am »

Pots are heavier and may lead to pathing/hauling issues. I always had issues with military dorfs dragging booze barrels to training....

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Naryar

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 07:51:00 am »

Pots are a bit bigger IIRC. But i've seen some 30-35 stacks of booze being storaged in barrels just fine.

RoaryStar

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 10:09:05 am »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.
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Wooster

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 10:50:12 am »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.
Pots are "Furniture > Food storage/pots". It's not immediately intuitive, but eventually one remembers!
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smakemupagus

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 12:35:13 pm »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.

I believe that there is a hardcoded solution that allows dwarves to pack more booze into a barrel than nominally fits, which is a little bit of a hack that Toady used to make sure the brewing reaction always works properly without spillage.  This leads to some confusion about the "actual" capacity of barrels.

Somebody more savvy could tell you if this is still the case in DF2014, I'm not sure.

RoaryStar

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 04:19:39 pm »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.
I believe that there is a hardcoded solution that allows dwarves to pack more booze into a barrel than nominally fits, which is a little bit of a hack that Toady used to make sure the brewing reaction always works properly without spillage.  This leads to some confusion about the "actual" capacity of barrels.

Somebody more savvy could tell you if this is still the case in DF2014, I'm not sure.

It's still the same; I was using those figures for normal hauling. Brewing is kinda bugged in that respect.
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Neckbeard

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 01:05:17 am »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.

At the moment, when my dwarf brews drinks, she splits a stack bigger than 6 items into a stack of 6 and remainder and only brews 6 items to either a barrel or a pot, no matter what I do.  It's annoying because I try to min-max my booze production and I if I don't catch the stack split in time I get a pot of dwarven rum (30) and a pot of dwarven rum (5) or something annoying like that.
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utunnels

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 01:59:09 am »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.

I'm sure I saw barrels can store nearly 60 units of items. Unless you are not talking about stack size?
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mndfreeze

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 02:26:22 am »

Pots actually weigh less then barrells not more.  Here is the entire wiki article, with the paragraph highlighted pertaining to weight.  I start making tons of wooden pots right away.  I dont really mess with making barrels since pots do hold more.  Also, the note about stack of alcohol vs food is listed in this snippet as well.  60 total prepared meals, or one STACK of booze.  Not sure what the maximum booze stack is, but I imagine if your brewer manages to make a booze stack sized @ 60 then it will go in a pot, but I dont remember how the booze stacking works.  Basically though, your dwarves can stick tons of different stacks of meals into a single pot, totalling 60, but with booze since its liquid it can only store one stack.  So regardless of stack size only one type of booze can be in a pot.  If you stuck antoher in there they would just be mixing together is the logic here.



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Pots are containers that function much like barrels, but can be made from other materials. They can be made from stone by a stone crafter at a craftsdwarf's workshop, ceramic at a kiln, glass at a glass furnace, wood at a craftsdwarf's workshop, or metal at a metalsmith's forge. Pots made from stone, stoneware, glass, wood, porcelain, metal, or glazed earthenware are water-tight and can be used to store liquids, and even for brewing. Unglazed earthenware can only be used for storing dry items. Metal pots are made using the metalcrafting skill, as opposed to metal barrels, which use the blacksmithing skill. The game refers to these containers sometimes as "pot" and sometimes as "large pot" but there is no actual distinction. Pots are stored in the Large Pots/Food Storage section of the Furniture stockpile. Pots are visible on the haul-for-trade screen under Tools section. Workshops that require a barrel for construction cannot use a pot instead.

Large pots are currently 1/4 as heavy[1] as barrels made from the same material, and they have double the capacity. Typical wood is density 500, while typical stone is 2670 - so a stone pot will typically weigh 33% more than a wood barrel, while carrying twice as much. Only lignite or jet stone pots will be lighter than a typical wooden barrel. Fire clay 'stoneware' pots weigh the same as a wooden barrel, while earthenware pots are lighter but may need to be glazed.
Metal pots are strictly superior to metal barrels, gaining the weight savings and requiring only one bar to construct instead of three, with the only disadvantage being the special cases where pots cannot be used. Similarly, wooden pots are strictly superior to wooden barrels for hauling and storage.
A pot can accommodate up to 60 prepared meals, but, like barrels, will still hold a maximum of one stack of booze, regardless of size.

Stone or metal large pots can also be used to conserve wood, if needed. They also allow trading valuable prepared meals to the elves, in the event you don't feel like exporting magma instead require cloth or find a useful exotic animal for sale.
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Reelya

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 02:37:52 am »

IIRC, barrels store 30, and pots store 60. Pots can be cheaply made, but have less uses than barrels: you can't make asheries with pots, and they're heavier. It's also a bit harder to find them in lists; they aren't considered 'barrels', and iirc won't show up in the trade list under them.

I believe that there is a hardcoded solution that allows dwarves to pack more booze into a barrel than nominally fits, which is a little bit of a hack that Toady used to make sure the brewing reaction always works properly without spillage.  This leads to some confusion about the "actual" capacity of barrels.

Somebody more savvy could tell you if this is still the case in DF2014, I'm not sure.

It's not really a "hack", for this purpose, the code just never checks that a container is big enough for a stack getting put into it by a reaction. In other words the game just ignores actual capacity in reactions and lets any stack go into any container. Reactions are hard-coded to use specific amounts of the reagents, and the barrel to put something in is a reagent, so a reaction needing 1 barrel will always use 1 barrel even if the stuff you're putting in it "shouldn't fit". Hopefully one day Toady will re-design the reaction system so that dwarves can "top up" half-full barrels of the same alcohol.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:51:41 am by Reelya »
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smakemupagus

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 09:55:44 am »

It's not really a "hack", for this purpose, the code just never checks that a container is big enough for a stack getting put into it by a reaction. In other words the game just ignores actual capacity in reactions and lets any stack go into any container. Reactions are hard-coded to use specific amounts of the reagents, and the barrel to put something in is a reagent, so a reaction needing 1 barrel will always use 1 barrel even if the stuff you're putting in it "shouldn't fit". Hopefully one day Toady will re-design the reaction system so that dwarves can "top up" half-full barrels of the same alcohol.

Toady has done something tricksy with it.  If a modder tries the same thing in a custom reaction, it will overspill. 

§k

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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 10:02:18 pm »

There's something about barrel not on the wiki:

Dwarven syrup can be stored in barrel, but not in pot.
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Re: barrels vs pots and the wiki
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 05:17:32 am »

Hopefully one day Toady will re-design the reaction system so that dwarves can "top up" half-full barrels of the same alcohol.
Even better, let dwarves mix drinks to create barrels of cocktails.
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