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[That Wolf]

I added humans to the civ list to play in Dwarf mode.
(Im new here and did a quick search, found nothing. If there is a legit thread for this please direct me)
I have been building wooden cottages, mead halls and workshops with a stone castle planned for the future.
Now I have many questions brewing.
1: Do they have tantrums?
2: Do they have moods?
3: Are they better fighters in general?
4: Will they craft the same items as Dwarves?
5: Can they craft items Dwarves cannot? (Two handed swords, mauls?)

And a side note, they work really fast its suprising. Its like easy mode.
Thanks in advance

[than402]

1.yes
2.yes
3.they are larger than dwarves, so yes. it mostly depends on skill, though
4.yes
5.yes, mostly weapons

they have significantly fewer alloys, though, and the game will still treat them as dwarves (urging you to "strike the earth" and such)

[That Wolf]

Ahh thank you my good man.
So by alloys do you mean they cant make these alloys?
And yeah I laughed at the strike the earth, my imagination changed it to "strike the trees"
Oh and Forgot
Do they get human migrants?

[than402]

Ahh thank you my good man.

no problem, glad to help

So by alloys do you mean they cant make these alloys?

they can make bronze, for instance, but not steel... on second thought, let me rephrase: they can't make steel.but you will receive a dwarven caravan, you can import it from there

And yeah I laughed at the strike the earth, my imagination changed it to "strike the trees"

with the help of some software you can change that.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108721.0

Oh and Forgot
Do they get human migrants?

yeah they do

[That Wolf]

Ah no steel. I embarked on a flux stone area for no reason then.
Still I guess all races have their downsides.
Again thanks man.
I may get more questions but they will figure themselves out

[Badger Storm]

Humans don't go into trances during combat either, but that's a minor thing.

[vjmdhzgr]

They're not actually much better during combat, they're probably worse really. They don't get martial trances, they don't have the strength, toughness, focus, and spatial sense bonuses dwarves do, and size really isn't much of a strength boost. However, without modding humans cannot make a military, nor can they elect mayors, or nobles, or bookkeepers, or brokers, or any positions because humans have    [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL][SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] rather than the positions dwarves have which aren't functioning in fortress mode. To make them functional find those tokens in the human entity, and replace them with the positions from the dwarf entity. The names will still be things like chief medical dwarf so you'll have to change those. Another thing, "And a side note, they work really fast its suprising. Its like easy mode." This is just some trick of the mind because humans are really just straight up worse than dwarves in most respects. They're less creative meaning the items they make are lower quality, they're worse at combat, and they can't make steel. The only things they have going for them are their size (very minor), they lack the agility penalty dwarves have (also very minor), and they can make different weapons types. However, I think the only weapons that's really worth using is the long sword which is straight up a bit better than the short sword. I've also heard that pikes are quite good, but they require not using a shield which is a pretty big weakness. Though there are some weapons that people just never use and so aren't really known about those being morningstars, flails, halberds, and great axes. I've never heard anybody say anything about how effectiv those weapons are so you could maybe try them out and compare them to other weapons once you mod humans to have the proper positions.

[Kamamura]

I don't know how is it modeled in the game, but in practice taller person with longer limbs is at an advantage, as mention by the famous fencing master George Silver in his book Paradoxes of Defense.

Let me quote page 30:

Scholar: Who has the advantage in fight, of a tall man, or a man of mean stature?

Master: The tall man has the vantage, for these causes(23): his reach being longer, and weapon unto his stature accordingly, he has thereby a shorter course with his feet to win the true place, wherein by the swift motion of his hand, he may strike or thrust home, in which time a man of mean stature cannot reach him, & by his large pace, in his true pace in his regression further, sets himself out of danger, & these are the vantages that a tall man has against any man of shorter reach than himself.

Scholar: What vantage has a man of mean stature against a tall man?

Master: He has none: because the true times in fight, and actions accordingly, are to be observed and done, as well by a tall man, as by a man of mean stature.

[vjmdhzgr]

I don't know how is it modeled in the game, but in practice taller person with longer limbs is at an advantage, as mention by the famous fencing master George Silver in his book Paradoxes of Defense.

Let me quote page 30:

Scholar: Who has the advantage in fight, of a tall man, or a man of mean stature?

Master: The tall man has the vantage, for these causes(23): his reach being longer, and weapon unto his stature accordingly, he has thereby a shorter course with his feet to win the true place, wherein by the swift motion of his hand, he may strike or thrust home, in which time a man of mean stature cannot reach him, & by his large pace, in his true pace in his regression further, sets himself out of danger, & these are the vantages that a tall man has against any man of shorter reach than himself.

Scholar: What vantage has a man of mean stature against a tall man?

Master: He has none: because the true times in fight, and actions accordingly, are to be observed and done, as well by a tall man, as by a man of mean stature.

Limg length is definitely not modeled in game, neither is weapon length so pikes and large daggers have the exact same range. The effects of size in combat are minor attack strength increases (seperate from strength increases, a dwarf can carry more than a human, but they probably have similar attack strengths), more tissues meaning the enemy needs to cut through more to sever a limb or something, more blood, and thicker clothing. All of these can have significant effects when you look at demons for example, but those are over 200 times the size of a dwarf, not 16% bigger.

[mineforce]

I've been playing human fortresses for a year. Here's what I can tell you.


1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes if they're well trained, they can easily defeat other races
4. Yes but you'll have to mess around with the entity raws
5. Yes, what the guy above said

Humans are fun creatures to play with, they give birth more common than dwarves and they are not alcohol dependent.  To make the game harder, make a few copies of humans in the creature standard and give them unique entity files such as...

-one human race has high morals while the other has low morals (ethics)

-one human race has a monarch, the other has a republic ish type of government (position)

-one human race lives in dark fortress
 

[kirmaster]

Do humans require alcohol, or does it make them worse? If they don't, is there anything they need to retain productivity?

[than402]

Do humans require alcohol, or does it make them worse? If they don't, is there anything they need to retain productivity?

no, they don't, but they still receive positive thoughts from alcohol, so there's reason to produce some. unlike dwarves there's nothing extraordinary they need to maintain productivity.

[NJW2000]

Re: The size issue:
Taller is stronger, often, but if your helmet is level with his stomach, then your axe is level with his kneecaps and your teeth are level with his crotch.

[Urist Tilaturist]

However, the taller being has far longer reach, so he can boot or chop the dwarf from further away than the dwarf can do anything in return. If reach is implemented properly, then size becomes massively more important. Kneecapping with an axe sounds like a good idea until the dwarf finds that the foe can easily bonk him on the head from outside the dwarf's axe range. Victory is not impossible, but it is hard.

[The Dorfmeister]

I have modded in fortress-playable humans too, with all the positions and nobles they need. But they cannot build any workshops in fortress mode. Not even a carpenterīs shop. Their jobs and produceable items are the same as the other races - without steel and adamantium of course, and I do not find anything in the raws about workshops.

So, humans donīt work in my game as playable civ.