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[duleshna]

But it sure would be awesome if they all had their own unique play style and all were equally in depth in complexity.  With each race having some abilities or buildings that are unique to them and others cant make or use, that give an advantage in certain scenarios.  Dwarves have steel, perhaps elves could use that 'grown' woodcraft to make weapons and armor that are actually equal to steel in power/strength, Ironwood for an example as many fantasy settings use.

Now that's an idea! It would balance the game in an interesting way. It just adds more !!!Fun!!! to the game when your opponents have something special under their sleeves. "Burn them elves with their 'natural armor and weapons'! Long live pure metalcraft!"

Though humans are still a bit of mystery to me. What is their unique speciality? Now I am honestly intriqued about trying out a human fortress myself.

[That Wolf]

Dont make me lock this thread. Take your Armok damned arguments into PM.
We dont need to see it.

To sum up the argument in Wolfys words: we are like a goldfish swiming in a bowl knowing only of the pebbles in the bottom, knowing of water and feeding only to forget everything else later.
Basicly we cannot look outside of our world/universe, we cant learn that what cant be seen or understood.
I cannot know of fire if I have never seen it, thus it will not influence my imagination.
All ideas are built upon one another. So yes Toady is obviously influenced by Tolkien and by ancient folklore.
If not by Tolkien directly, Tolkien himself was influenced by folklore, only further proving we all rely on eachother for ideas.

Next time you are angry and start posting. Write it down on paper and give it to somebody to see if it makes sense. Anger lowers IQ.


Back to the thread.
Humans specialty is utensils and other weapon types.
Like an adamant meat cleaver....
I found a disc of adamantine in the third cavern layer. It has nothing connected to it. I engraved the top of it for lols and mined it out, nothing happened except I got some Armokore.
Is this common for it to not be in a tube?

[mndfreeze]

Now that's an idea! It would balance the game in an interesting way. It just adds more !!!Fun!!! to the game when your opponents have something special under their sleeves. "Burn them elves with their 'natural armor and weapons'! Long live pure metalcraft!"

Though humans are still a bit of mystery to me. What is their unique speciality? Now I am honestly intriqued about trying out a human fortress myself.

Well, in most fantasy settings humans usually dont have any special physical or mental stat adjustments, but instead get an extra skill point or something to pass out because they are supposed to be less stuck in their ways about how to do things and instead have to learn a lot in their short lifespans (compared to other races like elves or dwarves).  In DF however I dont think you would need to follow that path at all.  Really, like any game that has multiple races or classes that play against each other they need to be mostly balanced but with minor changes that make them unique so one race isn't insanely weak to the others or one race isnt insanely strong over the others as well.  Like currently just the fact that only dwarves make steel is a MASSIVE advantage over the other races. 

For humans, maybe they could raise skill at a much faster rate then dwarves or elves do?  Though I think all races should be capable of steel or at least some equivilant of it.  It's just to big of an advantage with the way metals and attack and defense work. 

[That Wolf]

Dwarf fortress is not a game of fairness.
That being said, steel doesnt win wars. Cunning does.
I would love for you to make a steel armed fortress and show you I could severely cripple the army with wrestling and hand to steel combat. Kirsat Dur birches!

[Urist Tilaturist]

Steel does win wars, with the help of a bit of cunning and luck. Ask the Spanish conquistadores.

[mndfreeze]

Dwarf fortress is not a game of fairness.
That being said, steel doesnt win wars. Cunning does.
I would love for you to make a steel armed fortress and show you I could severely cripple the army with wrestling and hand to steel combat. Kirsat Dur birches!

Its not about fairness its about balance.  Balance is what makes the game enjoyable otherwise you might as well just bust out dfhack and make every dwarf you have maxed out everything, give yourself godlike abilities, etc.  But then what fun is it.  And really, everyone doesnt have to be equal, just roughly balanced out so that all the races would be fun to play for their own reasons.  Also you want the races to have some uniqueness to them, otherwise there is no reason to even bother making them playable.

I personally would love to see some of the other races as playable in the default game with their own style of play.  Maybe humans and some nice above ground castles and villages (way beyond what is capable currently I mean),  Elves living in the tree's somehow.  Maybe they have removeable ladders so when a goblin seige comes you pull up the ladders instead of raising a drawbridge to keep them out, and then the gobbo climbing skill can come into play.

Just spitballin ideas of course.

[Pencil_Art]

Re: The size issue:
Taller is stronger, often, but if your helmet is level with his stomach, then your axe is level with his kneecaps and your teeth are level with his crotch.

Is this from Discworld?

[NJW2000]

Sort of, I'm afraid.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Dont make me lock this thread. Take your Armok damned arguments into PM.
We dont need to see it.

To sum up the argument in Wolfys words: we are like a goldfish swiming in a bowl knowing only of the pebbles in the bottom, knowing of water and feeding only to forget everything else later.
Basicly we cannot look outside of our world/universe, we cant learn that what cant be seen or understood.
I cannot know of fire if I have never seen it, thus it will not influence my imagination.
All ideas are built upon one another. So yes Toady is obviously influenced by Tolkien and by ancient folklore.
If not by Tolkien directly, Tolkien himself was influenced by folklore, only further proving we all rely on eachother for ideas.

Next time you are angry and start posting. Write it down on paper and give it to somebody to see if it makes sense. Anger lowers IQ.


Back to the thread.
Humans specialty is utensils and other weapon types.
Like an adamant meat cleaver....
I found a disc of adamantine in the third cavern layer. It has nothing connected to it. I engraved the top of it for lols and mined it out, nothing happened except I got some Armokore.
Is this common for it to not be in a tube?

The moral of the story is never again to go on Bay12 intoxicated.

[Dyret]

The moral of the story is never again to go on Bay12 intoxicated.

I can relate.

[Henny]

Though humans are still a bit of mystery to me. What is their unique speciality? Now I am honestly intriqued about trying out a human fortress myself.

The human unique specialty is to have no unique specialty.

[mndfreeze]

Pretty much yes, tho it also means they have no negatives as well.  Thats how its translated into most games.  That bonus to whatever you get as a dwarf or elf comes at a cost to something else, humans have none of that.   In DF I would translate that to be similiar to everyone can make steel, or at least metal working races (not you elves!) but humans cant make adamantine.

For example.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Pretty much yes, tho it also means they have no negatives as well.  Thats how its translated into most games.  That bonus to whatever you get as a dwarf or elf comes at a cost to something else, humans have none of that.   In DF I would translate that to be similiar to everyone can make steel, or at least metal working races (not you elves!) but humans cant make adamantine.

For example.

I mostly agree with that. Humans should be able to make steel, though technology slowly spreading through the world with dwarves starting it could also be a good mechanic. Adamantine would be a closely guarded dwarven secret, though if dwarves moved into human civilisations as refugees or immigrants they could spread the knowledge.

Beside those materials, giant cave spider silk should make armour stronger than steel. Cutting through a spider silk vest with a sword would be almost impossible for a mortal. This could be balanced by making it horribly difficult to weave - maybe only by elves at first...

[That Wolf]

No way adamantine should be avalible to anyone willing to take its responsibility and chance the demon party being voted in by landslide.
Dwarves however could tread adamant as a holy/taboo substance like elves and plants, sending an army to seige you for the true blue.
Now thats a human fort.

[Boltgun]

By sticking to fantasy standards humans might be weak willed and go crazed while being this close to...