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[Mech#4]

From what I remember of Warhammer Online subscriptions dipped rather quickly after the initial release, coupled with the content relying on numbers to be enjoyable as well as people falling into rotation for taking keeps (Order takes zone, Destruction takes zone afterwards while both avoiding each other to deny medals) battles became more running around the zones taking points than actual fighting.

I think one of the bigger problems was coordinating a fight. Having warbands (24 people each) fighting each other was neat but to actually overcome the enemy you had to focus healers and damage dealers while making sure you were supporting your own side which was a bit much to expect random people to do.

I remember one time I saw the effectiveness of a group that worked together. An Order group made up of an Ironbreaker, Slayer, Archmage and some other class managed to beat about 12 people on their own through group tactics.

The last year or so I remember the server I was one flipped between Order and Destruction at certain times because large groups of one side of the other would log in thus making retaliation by the other side pretty impossible. It was also beneficial to let the enemy get to your capital because even the defenders got a chance to get end game loot during the siege.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

It's GWS' fault. They really just can't manage their own IP well. Even if they could, their mindset is, oh, lets make as many shitty games as possible to raise brand awareness.

[nenjin]

I don't think the fault lies specifically with GWS. They are not video game publishers, they just license out the IP for some sweet, sweet cash.

History has shown that when GWS tries to do something itself, they tend to do it in their own weird, often counter productive way. The most successful thing they've done outside of GWS games is their publishing wing, and I'm guessing that works because they've dabbled for years in publishing doing it wrong before they figured out how to do it right.

And to GWS, I'm sure the rationale goes like this: they know their IP is popular, but is it worth risking $300 million in development to actually turn out their own official video game? My guess is no. So they really serve in an advisory role to companies that use the IP, but aren't really responsible for their quality or lack there of. I mean, what are they going to do? Take $2 million or whatever their licensing fee is, then two years in development go "Nah, this isn't making 40k look very good, we're pulling the license."

Old GWS maybe might have done that. New GWS is just interested in revenue.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

But that IS their fault. Their mismanagement of the IP has hurt their overall popularity for short-term gain. 40k games have gotten steadily less popular. Aside from the obvious drop in quality, their increasingly niche COMPUTER GAMING licensing has really limited their audience.

[Cruxador]

Well, cut content for this game amounts to half a game. I called it a half-baked plan on announcement and it pretty much delivered. I guess that's partly why I can enjoy it as it is more, because the disappointment for what it could have been has no hold on me, because I never believed it was possible in the first place.

So many "big" GWS IPs have tanked that I have no faith in anyone that says they're going to do it right. Dark Millennium. Warhammer Online. I can't think of any GWS IP that has truly broken through the AAA barrier except Dawn of War and Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine (which was a wreck of development as well.) To me GWS games are destined to be stuck somewhere between indie and AAA because no one really commits the money and teams necessary to for them to become "big" games.

Yeah but the content they cut was the stuff that made it interesting in the first place. Nobody really thought they could do a good job at what they initially promised but people still assumed that the final product would somewhat resemble their stated goals.

It's GWS' fault. They really just can't manage their own IP well. Even if they could, their mindset is, oh, lets make as many shitty games as possible to raise brand awareness.

Uh, no. Used to be GW only let their license out in a very limited fashion. The games released under that paradigm were mostly not great either, and their fans didn't like it. In particular, games made by fans (like that Space Hulk one) had to be rebranded and that upset a lot of people. So GW listened to their fans, and let people make branded games if they want to, with minimal paperwork.

But that IS their fault. Their mismanagement of the IP has hurt their overall popularity for short-term gain. 40k games have gotten steadily less popular. Aside from the obvious drop in quality, their increasingly niche COMPUTER GAMING licensing has really limited their audience.

Are you talking about Age of Sigmar? Because if we're talking about licensed computer games, the license is pretty widely available. The reason the games being made are niche is because their fans want to make niche games, and AAA studios want their own IPs.

[nenjin]

Yeah but the content they cut was the stuff that made it interesting in the first place. Nobody really thought they could do a good job at what they initially promised but people still assumed that the final product would somewhat resemble their stated goals.

I mean, tangentially they accomplished it based on the format. It's a MP shooter. It's just not a "come down in muh drop pod in a battle zone with connected maps."

But generally I agree, the pizazz was in what didn't happen. But we don't have any competitive MP shooters for 40k right now, so, EC is the best it gets.

and AAA studios want their own IPs.

I think this is by and large what's going on. The only reason Sega is making DoW 3 is because they own the rights to a popular title. Which is why they're making it a fucking MOBA that will draw in MOBA players, because they want a winner, not a 40k game that fans would love.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

@Cruxador,

Except that the best 40k games were made under that system. DoW + Space Marine.

Except that fan games are still under threat of cease and desists to protect the IP.

Except that fan games suck dick.

No, I'm talking about 40k. Whose list of terrible video games is expansive.

"Fans" can't possibly want these niche games, because they don't do that well on the whole. There are a few smaller ones that have done okay, but most of them are really poor efforts at decades-old genre theory.

And finally, if AAA developers don't want the IP, it's because of it's fucking terrible history and the obvious hell of having GWS constantly auditing them and breathing down their backs. Yes, obviously every company wants their own flagship title, but the 40k IP would be a huge source of potential for a breakthrough project if it wasn't for the debilitating risks and drawbacks.

[Teneb]

Which is why they're making it a fucking MOBA that will draw in MOBA players

I am pretty sure it won't. It may create new MOBA fans who will then go on to one of the 'proper' games of the genre (LoL, DOTA, Smite, HotS), but its really hard to displace an MOBA fan from their game of choice.

Hell, I'm a fan of that genre, and I am not at all attracted by Dawn of War 3. It misses the point of MOBAs, where you use a single character (plus your team) to indirectly control the battle. What DoW3 does is take the very basics of a standard C&C-style RTS, throw in Company of Heroes capture points instead of the more traditional resource system, and force that into a MOBA wincon (destroy the enemy's Big Building).

Interesting note: I initially used AoS instead of MOBA (because Multiplayer Online Battle Arena is too damn generic and describes way too much, including this thread's game), but changed it because of possible confusion with Age of Sigmar.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Guys. MOBA is a very defined genre. We all know what a MOBA is. Also, what you've described sounds literally like a MOBA with some more stuff tacked on.

[MrRoboto75]

Guys. MOBA is a very defined genre. We all know what a MOBA is.

That thing Trump dropped in Afghanistan?

[Cruxador]

Guys. MOBA is a very defined genre. We all know what a MOBA is.

That thing Trump dropped in Afghanistan?

No, he dropped MOAB on them. It's a place in Utah.

[nenjin]

Spoiler: Stuff that isn't EC (click to show/hide)

I'll admit, my calling it a MOBA is intended as a slight, based on 2nd hand knowledge. Even setting that aside, I know what I want: big battles where the infantry is just as important as the hero. Not having matches take place inside sterile, shoe box sized maps. Gameplay that doesn't feel like an abstraction of 40k, but a simulation of it. I used to play DoW 1 maps with all AIs just to, ya know, enjoy the fantasy of it. Dawn of War 2 didn't even come close that. Like I said, the problem is no one is brave enough to try it, or risk working with GWS to do it. If the company who owns the IP has the resources to make it happen and they still won't try it....can you really blame anyone else for deciding to assume all the risk? So instead they go with a much safer format that, for me, feels like is causing 40k to drift evermore in to pure style over substance. Making a chess game out of it didn't help that impression at all.

Thanks whoever used my referral code again btw! Feel free to post your own. Kinda tempted to hijack this thread and make a new one for the game so people can list codes and stuff. Thoughts?

[Mephisto]

Finally got an ork to break character. Called me a retard painboy. Guess you can't win 'em all.

[nenjin]

As always the solution to that is: more dakka.

I've gotten to the point I TK people that annoy me in this game, I just don't care.

Played with some friends the other night, playing Eldar, and our squad leader simply wouldn't mark points or promote anyone. We pinged the point, we messaged through faction chat, squad chat, voice chat....nothing.

So finally I cornered him and downed him and started healing him. Then my friend blocked him in and started shooting him. Rinse and repeat until he finally spoke up on chat and was like "uh, why are you killing me?"

Cruel I know but I swear that's what it takes to get through to some people in this game. If you want to do well, make great XP and win, you have to have a brain and listen to your teammates when they try to educate you.

Or I'll pump you full of dakka, rez you and do it again til you learn. I don't think it actually counts as a team kill until they are forced to respawn.

[nenjin]

Patch notes:

General

•   The new World Map visual update is in, paving the way for new functionality.
•   There are reports of Skarboy Kommando on the battlefield but we’ve been searching and haven’t been able to locate him. (Premium version)
•   A new advancement, Sneaking Skillz for Slugga Nobz allowing them to not find themselves anymore. (Free version)
•   Three new Khornate helmets are in the rogue trader store for you fashion conscious followers of the dark gods.
•   Chaos has a new campaign starting with a sweet looking reward. It’s a shoulder pad with a chaos star on a pile of skulls.
•   The Shuriken Catapult 3.4x zoom scope is now available via supply drop.

Balance Updates

•   Adjusted the damage falloff of the Kannon Deffgun shell fire mode such that direct or near-direct hits are required to do maximum damage.
•   Removed the suppression effect from the Ace Dakka.
•   The Chaos Space Marine anti-personnel default loadout now comes pre-equipped with the Frag Bundle. This item has also been added to the Chaos Space Marine starting inventory and can be equipped by Traitor and Traitor Assault classes.

Bug Fixes

•   Fixed a bug where Dakka Deffguns and Plasma Deffguns could not queue fast attacks.
•   Fixed a bug where Deffgun fast and strong melee attack VFXs were not played in the correct direction.
•   Fixed a bug where Slugga Boyz could not equip ammo consumables.
•   Fixed a bug where all Eldar vehicles would incorrectly use forward maximum speed to limit lateral movement speed. It now has less lateral ability and Eldar vehicles will have further changes, making act more like hover vehicles and less like omnipotent Death Race participants.
•   Removed a floating pillar in Medusa.
•   Assigned heroes to players who already bought them on Website.
•   Moved "Purchase Extra Slot" button top right and adjusted naming.
•   Fixed a bug where the blood decals from Tyranids remained visible indefinitely, causing performance issues when many of them were stacked.
•   Fixed bug where both of the Mark III Armours were clipping when the user has power armour equipped.
•   Added a Ork Cloaking Device called Sneaking Skillz for veteran Slugga boys in advancements (Slugga Nobz).
•   Fixed bug where the Skarboy Kommando and Striking Scorpion's grenades appear cloaked on other clients.
•   Fixed bug where firing at a Ground Assault who had their shield raised would result in damage being taken.
•   Fix a bug where double clicking on a zone in the world map would result in the zoom being interrupted.

The Chaos campaign starts tomorrow.