a straight command like "Open the window", while it sounds rude or brusque in English, would to a Dwarf indicate respect: the speaker respects their audience enough to be direct with them and tell them straight out what they want, how they feel, etc. In contrast, the more indirect "Could you open the window?" would sound evasive, possibly manipulative, and would indicate that the speaker may not trust the audience well enough to speak straight.
Huh. Does it? I guess I'm more dwarven than I thought.
So I could say Guth mamgoz than, "Kill - dragon - you (formal)," which would be a respectful, direct way of telling someone to kill a dragon. Than cal guth mamgoz? "You (formal) - can kill - dragon" would not be "rude," but would indicate the speaker's unwillingness to engage the audience directly. Guth mamgoz ush, "kill - dragon - you (informal)" would be disrespectful if said to a superior or possibly to an equal, but acceptable if said to an inferior (in which case than would be generous, even prodigal depending on the circumstances).
Bah. I don't think so. I think if a dwarf wants to be rude, then he/she 'll
be rude, by flinging direct or implied ( with all the subtlty of an anvil ) threats, insults, and lovely comparisons to horrible, horrible things. It doesn't seem in-game that much class system exists, there's simply "nobles", "skilled individuals" and "unskilled individuals". I imagaine that they all just bark orders at each other all the time based on that hierarchy and that only the nobles give a crap about the hierarchies, and only amongst nobles. ( i.e. "I am a king, you are a mere
baron. Get out of my sight and go scrub something." And substitute peasant for any non-noble, except skilled individuals that have managed to impress said noble, who'll be addressed directly and complimented upon a job well done. ) I think beyond that, it'll come down to the temperment of each dwarf, and given the nature of dwarves as seen so far, I could well see a hauler cussing out a skilled individual, even an artifact-maker, if sufficiently peeved or prone to anger. I think they'll hold their tongue when it comes to nobles, simply because of the dwarves' incredible commitment to the concepts of oaths. It's been a while since last I read it, but I'm thinking something like Heorot in
Beowulf in terms of most of the populous, with Dwarven greed and excess of power driving the higher nobles to act like Thorin Oakenshield from the latest Hobbit movie: Bossy, bratty, impatient, and more prone to negative emotions and paranoia. Even then, it would come down to the temperament of a dwarf and I doubt the dwarves will put as much subtlty as having syntax rules involved in insults and will more likely just insult each other, brag, and/or fight and tantrum. Again, we have all seemed to agree that they love directness and I personally see their culture as being influenced heavily by Anglo-Saxon tradition - sensible considering they're [loosely] based on the Tolkien conception of a dwarf, which is heavily influenced by an affinity for the Anglo-Saxon and Nordic traditions combined with a bit of scrutiny of Tolkien's own time. Doubtless, they'll continue to develop away from this, and with time - assuming dwarves are subject to the same foibles as humanity - they
might develop such a complex, pedantic, unpleasant, and Tywin Lannister style of supreme double-edged "compliments" which quite obviously translate to "I wish you were dead and given time I might make you dead." ( Note: I hate most of the Game of Thrones series, I don't know or care if the books are better, but I'd rather not see that be taken as the Dwarven norm just because it's "popular fantasy". Cos f*** that, there's way better ways to make a dark story than that revolting mess that is King's Landing. ) Anyway, back from my digression, in summation: Dwarves prefer to stab people with swords and spears, not words. If there's any species in the Dwarf Fortress universe that does it, it's humans. Dwarves and elves are pretty much direct in their disdain or approval of things, and the little I've observed of goblin and kobold culture, they're much the same. If a Dwarf cannot bury their emotions enough to continue working dutifully, they act upon them and probably don't make a show of backhanded compliments and subtle implications of displeasure with a person. Also, if we take the fact that human cultures are most prone to being taken over by demons to be culturally indicative, I think this further supports my assertions. ( More likely, it's just cos they're living on the plains. ) So, to conclude with a point: I don't think it's necessary, prudent, or fun to develop complex formality systems in languages, as subtext is typically lost with time and formality systems in real world languages wax and wane, being at their best and most complete binary: superior and equal/inferior, which is sort of what Loam is suggesting but less complicated. And while we
could develop that, it would be both a gigantic pain in the arse and totally unnecessary, at least as I see it. Sorry for rambling.
PS. Yes I am aware that Old English and even Middle English had a formality system and that Old English had not one, not two, but three different formality titles/levels, even so there was a lot less... arrogance? in the way I've seen it carried out in those languages. No, I haven't read that much Old English lit. and I've been assisted by translations so I might've just missed it. My main point is that dwarves are not huge, backstabbing assholes stereotypical humans for the most part, so they've much less a need for subtle manipulativeness in language and their language, at least in its inception, should reflect that until such a time until a dwarven settlementculture has devolved into that, if ever it did. My second main point is that titles suffice. My secondary point is that it'd be a pain in the ass to implement and I'm lazy enough to just borrow "jarl/earl" "carl/" and "thrall" to describe noble, skilled labor, and unskilled labor respectively with or without the connotations of slavery - preferably without as I don't think dwarves even have a notion of slavery. They seem like they're honour-bond since birth to do labor in accordance with what best suits the needs of their settlement as determined by nobles - who even when corrupt should be obeyed because it is better to die with honor. This is a fundamental disconnect between their society and the societies of Europe and the States, but that just adds to the depth of it. Of note, dwarves don't seem to take war prisoners as slaves, so they aren't even congruent with real-world societies of past times and even further wouldn't have a notion of slavery. As per what to do with "outsiders", stereotypically dwarves are wary or ambivalent to outsiders, absorbed in their own affairs to a fault, but never do they really condescend around them unless they are condescended too first. ( For example, in the Tolkien universe with the Dwarves vs Elves there. ) However, dwarves of Dwarven forts routinely ignore elven insults, implying that they are either insult backfires, not comprehended, or that the dwarves just don't care. So, I think talk about outsiders would follow these lines - not that "others" are inferior, slave quality, or to be disrespected, just that they're not trustworthy and should be watched even when trade is going good. This attitude is probably applicable to humans as well, but I haven't really observed them enough to tell. Humans and dwarves, and dwarves and elves seem to naturally be on amicable terms so I would imagine that dwarves simply adopt the mannerisms of who they're speaking to temporarily, rather than craft their own analogues. ( i.e. Dwarves can use human politeness when trading with humans, so long as the humans don't directly insult them or try for a ludicrous bargain. Dwarves can temporarily - maybe even genuinely - care about trees when trading with elves, saying things to the effect of "it is a shame, but it is inevitable and we take care to not take more than needed." This is even more probable if the dwarves are speaking in the language of who they're trading with or some sort of common tongue, which would likely cover the basic niceties. I'll attribute navigating that quagmire to the negotiator skill.)
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Topic: Dwarven Linguistics Core Project (Read 37942 times)