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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Grim Portent]

I have started noticing an interesting trend among Christians here, in Ukraine:

They envy and admire Muslims. I mean stuff like: " They actually pray regularly. Their mosques are always full. Their women are modest and chaste. They don't allow sodomy run rampart"  and similar BS. Is this a local phenomenon or do Christians in your countries have similar sentiments?

The conservative/regressive ones do, or some of them anyway. Depends on if they're more bothered by social liberalism or xenophobia.

Really when you get into the socially conservative sphere of religious people they all become pretty interchangable. A fundamentalist generally has more in common with fundamentalists of other faiths than with moderates of their own faith when it comes to actual social attitudes.

[Telgin]

Here in the southeastern US the Christians I've interacted with all think the Muslims are going to take over the country and start beheading people any day now, so no, I don't think that's very general or universal.

[Frumple]

You do occasionally see them praising sharia law (or at least its implementation, if not when it's referred to by that exact term, ha) or whatev', though.

Like, they want to glass every muslim country on the planet, but they're envious of some of the theocratic policy or practices seen in some of them. So some degree of envy, yes, it's just envy that's part of a generally genocidal sentiment, so...

[McTraveller]

There's a difference between admiring devotion itself and admiring the object of that devotion.  Thing is, devotion itself isn't what really matters; it turns out the object of devotion is quite significant.

[Egan_BW]

Even when it's explicitly just a different name for the same critter?

[Maximum Spin]

Well, the catch is that Muslims believe it is the same critter but many Christians don't. Well, most Christians seem to believe that Mohammed was a charlatan and Allah isn't anything, but those who think it is something generally think it's some kind of demon pretending to be God. Like in Narnia. The only Christians I know of who do think it's the same critter are Universalists, and, let's be honest, they don't really count.

[TD1]

There's a difference between admiring devotion itself and admiring the object of that devotion.  Thing is, devotion itself isn't what really matters; it turns out the object of devotion is quite significant.

Devotion and not its object is the only thing to exist, however difficult it may be to quantify. and therefore matter.

[MaxTheFox]

Nope, haven't heard about that here.

[TD1]

Nope, haven't heard about that here.

If you're referring to my post, I will revise my wording.

'Within the balance of probability, devotion and not its object is the only thing to exist, however difficult that devotion may be to quantify. Therefore it is the only thing to matter.'

Most religious folks will acknowledge that their worldview doesn't rank highly in terms of probability, simply that their faith stipulates it to be true anyway.

Regardless of faith, though, the real-world likelihood of most religious thought being correct is nearly zero, and this doesn't factor in the different layers of faith. From institutional, to national, to regional, to parish, to church, to individual etc.

The likelihood of an Irish Catholic from Ulster, living in Ballymoney and participating in the Parish of Ballymoney and Derrykeighan, attending Our Lady & St Patrick's Catholic Church, and with a personal cocktail of beliefs concerning, perhaps and among other things, the accuracy of saying 'this is the body of Christ'  ----  the likelihood of her being correct is technically possible, but not in a way that would register on any meaningful scale.

In this scenario, the object of her faith isn't important. But the fact of her devotion is.

Edit: Unless you're this guy.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MaxTheFox]

No I agree with you, I was responding to Strongpoint's question lol

[TD1]

Aha, yea, I wondered.

Cheers anywho.

[Strongpoint]

So it is a local phenomenon. Probably because we never had any major anti-Muslim propaganda on the state\church\party level and most Ukrainian Christians met exactly zero Muslims in their lives.

[Frumple]

More the former than the latter, if anything. Most stateside christians have met exactly zero muslims in their lives, too (especially in any way that actually indicates they're islamic), but that doesn't stop the more rabid ones from publicly calling for bombing muslim population centers.

[MaxTheFox]

I suppose this little vent rant fits the most in this thread.

I cannot understate how much of an embarrassment the Chick Tracts are. While he is of a broadly similar denomination to myself, there's a reason why the saying goes "the most vehement disagreements are between people who are not in total opposition". Actually no, that is being charitable. He is a moralizing, dogmatic, science-denying, fundamentalist. Catholics go to Hell, Orthodox go to Hell, non-denominationals go to Hell, non-fundamentalist Evangelicals go to Hell (with myself being in the fourth category). Only his little sect, with its bizarre interpretation of theology is worthy.

I still read them, to riff on them, because I think they're hilarious in a tragic way, or a "oh no I can't look away" way.

[Loud Whispers]

I suppose this little vent rant fits the most in this thread.

I cannot understate how much of an embarrassment the Chick Tracts are. While he is of a broadly similar denomination to myself, there's a reason why the saying goes "the most vehement disagreements are between people who are not in total opposition". Actually no, that is being charitable. He is a moralizing, dogmatic, science-denying, fundamentalist. Catholics go to Hell, Orthodox go to Hell, non-denominationals go to Hell, non-fundamentalist Evangelicals go to Hell (with myself being in the fourth category). Only his little sect, with its bizarre interpretation of theology is worthy.

I still read them, to riff on them, because I think they're hilarious in a tragic way, or a "oh no I can't look away" way.

The DnD ones however are all hella balls to the walls awesome

"DON'T TALK TO ME BLACKLEAF. YOUR CHAR DIED. YOU ARE DEAD"

10 panels later

Blackleaf's player has died. If you die in the game, you die in real life