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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[jipehog]

I was talking about the 'paranoid or seeing patterns that aren't there' part, whatever causing it is flourishing on the net hence the wave of conspiracism and populism

[dragdeler]

Pareidolia that's called.


Nice challenge, a thing that is uncaused is ignorance I say. It exists for a lack of cause to dissolve it's existence. Another one is math axioms they can be true and provable, without anybody ever having spared a thought to them. Oh you want a "thing"? The zone outside of where our universe has expanded to, nothing has reached it to cause anything yet.

[Magmacube_tr]

railgun bad

[MaxTheFox]

Science and religion should be kept as separate as possible

Science is merely a method to understand how things work. Separating it from something is willful ignorance.

Yes because legitimizing people's bias caused by religion is how you get good science. That's how it works!

[lemon10]

Nice challenge, a thing that is uncaused is ignorance I say.

There is a direct cause for ignorance actually. And at the same time that cause and your ignorance of said cause share the same root, and that's YO MOMMA for giving birth to you (although obviously for other people its their momma, not yours).

Another one is math axioms they can be true and provable

An axiom, postulate, or assumption is a statement that is taken to be true, to serve as a premise or starting point for further reasoning and arguments. The word comes from the Ancient Greek word ἀξίωμα (axíōma), meaning 'that which is thought worthy or fit' or 'that which commends itself as evident'

No, axioms cannot be proven.
And since axioms are "merely" assumptions they are created when people assume them to be true.

Now, those axioms do describe universal truths, but any competent philosopher should know that these truths were of course created by Chaos at the beginning of time.

Basic logic might indeed be multiversal, but that's obviously unprovable either way.

Oh you want a "thing"? The zone outside of where our universe has expanded to, nothing has reached it to cause anything yet.

Au contraire, the only reason you are able to define it as outside our universe is because the universe was created in the first place.
---
But all these things kinda prove my point, as even if you count them ancient people are not going to be big on formal math proofs, and are obviously not going to be observing the space outside the universe either.

[EuchreJack]

railgun bad

railgun good

[Eschar]

'Ancient people aren't going to be big on formal math proofs'? The earliest axiomatic system we use is from Euclid.

[Strongpoint]

Science and religion should be kept as separate as possible

Science is merely a method to understand how things work. Separating it from something is willful ignorance.

Yes because legitimizing people's bias caused by religion is how you get good science. That's how it works!

This is why a honest scientist should apply science to their religion, see that it isn't supported by evidence, and stop being religious. Instead, religious scientists do separate science from their religion.

[jipehog]

Scientist should apply the scientific method to everything. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who let their agendas, political philosophy and faith in their right of way get ahead of the facts. And I believe that the overwhelming majority of scientist aren't observant religious.

[Strongpoint]

Scientist should apply the scientific method to everything. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who let their agendas, political philosophy and faith in their right of way get ahead of the facts. And I believe that the overwhelming majority of scientist aren't observant religious.

More often political agendas, philosophies or faiths of others prevent scientists from doing their job the way they want.

There is no problem if some biased "geologist" will publish a paper claiming that Earth is 6K years old because he will be demolished by peer reviews*. The problem starts when such peer reviews become attacked by religious crowds.

*or by random YouTubers with proper middle school education

And yes, this problem goes beyond religions

[jipehog]

I would say systemic bias in higher education system with 'woke' call-out culture is bigger problem than random youtubers. If you have the time watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gatn5ameRr8

[MaxTheFox]

Science and religion should be kept as separate as possible

Science is merely a method to understand how things work. Separating it from something is willful ignorance.

Yes because legitimizing people's bias caused by religion is how you get good science. That's how it works!

This is why a honest scientist should apply science to their religion, see that it isn't supported by evidence, and stop being religious. Instead, religious scientists do separate science from their religion.

My interpretation of my religion doesn't really contradict science and the field I am going into (material science) doesn't really have a shot at disproving anything (if it even was possible to disprove it). Lol

A world where everyone only held "rational" beliefs would be a quite boring world, honestly. I'm happy to be fighting the fight to make sure that world doesn't come to pass.

[hector13]

I’m not sure how boring rationality is worse than what we have now, when people believe Covid was spread by 5G and vaccines to control its spread were means of implanting microchips so everyone can be tracked even though most people carry a GPS that listens to their conversations everywhere with them all the time.

[Strongpoint]

A world where everyone only held "rational" beliefs would be a quite boring world, honestly. I'm happy to be fighting the fight to make sure that world doesn't come to pass.

Yes, imagine how boring the world would be if not for the people who believe that homosexual people are abominations in the eyes of God and should be killed on the spot.

[MaxTheFox]

Wonderful strawmen, you two. Can you quote the post where I said all irrational beliefs were good? Especially conspiracy theories. I am allowed to hate parts of something without hating it all. Yes, the fundies should be wiped out. But if someone tried to wipe out moderate religion with them, well I'd fight against that, gun in hand.

And now you see why I don't trust snobby atheists. Why should I take your arguments to heart, or think you're doing this in good faith (no pun intended) if you're willing to blatantly misrepresent me?