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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[McTraveller]

its like you were raised by wolfs

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[jipehog]

Its a tv-show which takes place in the midst of struggle between Atheist and Theist society. Where the main protagonist is a guardian angel, an android that can fly, have sonar mapping, shoot lighting from the eyeballs and other cool stuff. Dreams too iirc. Jumped to my head when reading Roland comment in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwyVQmuX2aY
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/RaisedByWolves2020

[Rolan7]

Its a tv-show which takes place in the midst of struggle between Atheist and Theist society. Where the main protagonist is a guardian angel, an android that can fly, have sonar mapping, shoot lighting from the eyeballs and other cool stuff. Dreams too iirc. Jumped to my head when reading Roland comment in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwyVQmuX2aY
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/RaisedByWolves2020

Omigosh that sounds incredible and the title sequence definitely has my attention, thank you very much!!

executing protect.sh *_*

[TD1]

There's one theory that the only one who did exist around the time was Paul, who presented Christ similar to how channels present their...aliens or whatever they think they're talking to. The messiah claimants were common, as they still are today, so Jesus's story might be a conglomeration of several of them, after Paul's teachings got some traction.

Two things were required for the creation of a messiah: poor communication channels, and need.

The Jewish people (or a vocal element thereof) wanted a King of the Jews to fix their society and challenge Rome. So they made one, even one who did not fit the prophecies, and left future interpolators, compilers, transcribers, and editors to rationalise.



I find Max's distinction between rational and spiritual fairly interesting. By my reckoning, faith ought to be rational - even when making unsubstantiated claims, there should be internal consistency. An all-loving God should not act out of hatred or pettiness, and so on.

The flaws and hatreds espoused in religious texts are humanity's fingerprint in the clay of the divine - and, were they transcendent truth, would not be there.

[MaxTheFox]

Oh I do have internal consistency, in fact I feel an internally non-consistent belief system is inherently bad and wrong. What I meant by "not rational" is that there is no real evidence towards it.

[jipehog]

By my reckoning, faith ought to be rational - even when making unsubstantiated claims, there should be internal consistency. An all-loving God should not act out of hatred or pettiness, and so on.

What do you mean by faith?

[TD1]

Belief and the systems of thought/action which it engenders.

[Schmaven]

A lot of secular people have faith as well.  Science has even mislead millions of people many times over the years to have faith in incorrect and even harmful views.  It's not limited to the religious by any means, despite it being perhaps the main criticism of religion.

Edit: I'd have to put more thought into it to give a satisfactory definition, but faith might be described as belief in something as being good and worthwhile to pursue and gain more familiarity with, whether via some practice, or activity (such as study).  That can certainly be based on logical reasoning and analysis, but can also be blind.

[Strongpoint]

A lot of secular people have faith as well.  Science has even mislead millions of people many times over the years to have faith in incorrect and even harmful views.  It's not limited to the religious by any means, despite it being perhaps the main criticism of religion.

Edit: I'd have to put more thought into it to give a satisfactory definition, but faith might be described as belief in something as being good and worthwhile to pursue and gain more familiarity with, whether via some practice, or activity (such as study).  That can certainly be based on logical reasoning and analysis, but can also be blind.

Weird definition.

There are many definitions of the word faith, as with any complex idea, the same word can describe quite different things. If you want an 'averaged' definition I'd say it "Faith is a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence."

Thankfully, the Bible has its own definition of Faith.
Hebrews 11:1 – “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen

When science gets something wrong, it is not of the conviction of things not seen. It is a wrong interpretation of observations. And real science doesn't assure anything with no evidence. (Pseudosciences do, it is a good method to tell them apart.)

When you trust an authority (like a scientist or a politician)... it is exactly that -  trust. And have little in common with religious faith. Only blind trust in something can be similar to religious faith and even then it is not quite it.

[EuchreJack]

It's more interesting when you realize Science predates the Scientific Method.

[EuchreJack]

Business vs. Religion, time to find out where our current US Supreme Court's sympathies really lie.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/supreme-court-showdown-sabbath-change-workplaces-us/story?id=98027258

[Frumple]

Five'll get you ten the answer will be business -- but off the record significantly due to the fact that siding with religion on this one would also be benefiting jews, muslims, etc. The conservative part of that bench is pretty likely to go out of their way to piss on religious observance that isn't christian, and they're entirely aware siding with this guy means non-christians get their piece of that pie, too.

[EuchreJack]

Sadly, I agree, although Fundamental Christians would salvate at the Sabbath being protected. It'd also fix the problem that Mainstream Christianity has with filling the pews. The Catholics should be lobbying hard for this Religious Exemption, since they need the bodies.

[Frumple]

It'd do approximately sod all to fill the pews, though? Just because there's a religious exemption out there, doesn't mean people would take it -- most folks that are currently at jobs open on whatever their preferred holy day is work on those days because they need the money, not because they can't get a schedule without a sunday (or whatever) shift.

If they want the pews to be filled, they need labor protections and welfare and whatnot, not protected leave without pay for religious observance, heh.

E: Well, those things plus for the church leadership to stop being ghoulish antichristian sacks of filth, but, y'know, baby steps. First labor protections, then maybe we can get to things like outlawing child marriage or them not being antichristian assholes.

[jipehog]

Religious faith can have different meanings depending on the context and perspective e.g. for some it is just a way of life or a support system e.g. people who experienced trauma and grief may seek comfort, support from a community, and way to come with terms with what happen and find new purpose possibly like the Ukrainians you mentioned above.

Otherwise how about faith in yourself/spouse/kids? Optimism? Hope?

Your concept of trust and faith seem different on paper (one is confidence in something based on evidence or past experience the other is belief without requiring evidence or proof) but in practice I think they have a lot in common. We know that its not information and understanding that drives the average joe political\ethical belief system, so isn't it fair to say that the vast majority of people political views are faith like blind trust and fallback to familiar dogmatism they were raised on?

I believe that what you really have an issue with is religion resistance to change.

It's more interesting when you realize Science predates the Scientific Method.

More so when people realize our epistemic limitations and how often people claiming facts are widely over-reaching with enthusiastic interpretation. Especially in social science which deals with human emotions and behaviors and involve numerous variables that are often unpredictable or beyond our control.

Many social issues are wicked problems characterized by complexity, uncertainty and lack of clear cut solutions, these include things like poverty or climate change, we all know they exist but we don't know what the best way to solve the, only faith-based approaches that involve subjective perceptions of situation, values, needs and wants.