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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Rolan7]

Never imagined a monster in your closet?  Or that your computer was misbehaving?
Shinto is the Japanese belief that natural objects have spirits.
Native Americans worshiped and erected totems to natural forces.
The Europeans whispered about Fey well into medieval times.
African religions were almost the definition of animism.

These ideas developed independently, and I think we all recognize them despite our upbringing.  It doesn't mean they're true, just that we have them in common.

[TD1]

We aren't born religious, animistic or otherwise. We learn it, along with social norms. Animism is an early form of religion, but it's still a learned one, not one everyone naturally has or develops independently.

[Rolan7]

At the very least, we anthropomorphize the things we interact with...  Particularly when we're young, before entrenched ideas are implanted by our parents.

[TD1]

True - but anthropomorphism isn't exactly the same thing. But yes, I agree that we attribute human traits to inaminate things often. And this can lead into animism, and is in fact how religion itself began. (Unless you believe otherwise.)

[Adragis]

From an atheistic viewpoint, it is very probably so. From a religious viewpoint, very probably not.

[TD1]

Hence the

Unless you believe otherwise.

[Adragis]

Just clarifying the relevant viewpoints. Or something.

[Rolan7]

I suggest that anthropomorphism does imply animism.
This is the core of sci-fi about androids.  It behaves just like (some of) us, hence we feel that it deserves consideration.
Then look at an ape.  They have emotions like we do, thus they're like us.
Then look at a rat.  It flees and squeals like we do, thus we feel for it.
We even feel bad about squishing ants for fun.  Why?  They're nothing more than vermin, worse than vermin, fractions of an actual being.  To exterminate them for infesting our house is fine. 
But to hunt them down outside and squish them, or burn them under a magnifying glass?  We feel that that is wrong.  That's the reason some of us do it, and others of us are repulsed.  We do care.

The big jump is from life to nonlife, and maybe that's too far.  Maybe life itself is special.  I would be happy for people to recognize and respect that much.
You can respect something while eating it, lest I be misunderstood.  I'm mostly vegetarian, but I do eat living, thinking beings.  I just believe they have souls.

Sometimes, I dream of being them.  It's a natural process.  I'm going to die someday, and I'll probably be wasted in some incinerator.  I'm not proud of that.

[Graknorke]

The comparisons with other animals aren't really the same though, since people seeing apes and rats as being like us is a direct result from how similarly they act. Ants and trees, not so much.

[TD1]

I view all killing as killing. I suppose I'm something of a hypocrite, as I'm not a vegetarian, but I think I would be if I had the option between killing or greens, I'd take the greens. I see the ant as having a world of its own. We think we are superior because of our intelligence and size. That is our universe. The ant has its own universe, with its own mysteries. Our mysteries involve outer space and physics. An ant's involve the area beyond where it has roamed, and how much food it can carry. There are more unsung tales of bravery from ants defending their home than any hundred battles humans have been in.

What I'm trying to say is that we value our life as being above everything else. The ant does the same. When it dies, it ceases to exist. It is gone. Its universe has been destroyed.

...I think I may have gone on something of a tangent.

[i2amroy]

What I'm trying to say is that we value our life as being above everything else. The ant does the same.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. I'd say that ants, bees, and many other hive insects are one of the most gregarious examples of a creature that values something else above its own life, notably the continuation of the hive. There's a reason why some species of ants and bees have developed literal suicide bombers, because in their view the life of the colony is greater than any one of their lives. (Additionally studies have shown that sick hive insects actually pull the whole "walk out into the wasteland alone so as to give everyone else a better chance of survival" fairly regularly instead of staying and consuming resources that could be used to feed other ants).

[TD1]

Fair point - perhaps their life isn't the most important thing to them. But regardless, by killing an ant, you kill the ant's world. A super intelligent alien race could hunt us like rabbits and give as little thought as we do to killing an ant, but every time a human is killed, a world is destroyed. More to the point, by "world" I mean an outlook on the world, a perception, memory, inclination, life lived within and a life that is internalised.

[i2amroy]

Fair enough.

[UXLZ]

I suppose I'm something of a hypocrite, as I'm not a vegetarian, but I think I would be if I had the option between killing or greens, I'd take the greens.

And yet you say you're not a vegetarian, so what you mean is that you're averse to killing yourself rather than the act of killing as a concept. If someone else does it far away, in a place you never have to think about, who cares, right?

At least, that seems to be the implication. Am I misunderstanding?

[TD1]

Over time I have learned not to associate life with the slab of meat in my burger. It's not right, and I am seriously considering becoming a vegetarian despite the fact that I absolutely love meat. I am averse to killing and the concept of killing anything, but on the other hand I live on a beef farm. I farm animals for the slaughter. It does not matter how much it tears me up to effectively sentence a cow to death - and I know my dad feels the same, he gets very low after sending some off. Talks about them too. - we still need a roof over our heads and food on the plate.

I am a living contradiction, I guess. The only way it works is by not thinking about it. Actually personally having to choose between killing the animal and the greens, who would kill the animal? Having to choose a burger on a menu isn't the same thing. So I'm averse to both, but I'm just a terrible person.