As a reminder, this interesting derail started from the phrase "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance.
Assuming the God represents an actual deity, can someone explain why it isn't a betrayal of our ideals of liberty and religious freedom?
I don't think anyone would argue that the under God phrase in the pledge violates the separation of church and state. And today I'd say it violates our ideal of religious freedom too. Why it violates the ideal of liberty I'm not completely sure your reasoning for that, although as a monotheist, Loud Whispers point probably applies to me. The thing is that no one seems toseriously care enough about the pledge outside of schools enough to change it.
As a reminder, this interesting derail started from the phrase "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance.
Assuming the God represents an actual deity, can someone explain why it isn't a betrayal of our ideals of liberty and religious freedom?
The phrase "Under God" wasn't in the original pledge. It was added later by a few people, motivated by their own denominations or something. I suppose it just caught on and government didn't want to intervene, being that a majority Christian population may have an issue with it.
Well, according to Wikipedia the person who came up with argued that it was part of American cultural heritage and pointed to Lincoln using it in the Gettysburg Address. It eventually made it in in the 1950s, most likely as a way to distinguish from the Communists. I'm hoping you knew all this though.
Is the pledge of allegiance determined by law or something, or is it just a bit of folklore around the US as a nation, like the anthem or the flag? If it's the latter, it containing the phrase 'under God' is no more a violation of religious freedom than the Scandinavian flags containing crosses.
I wouldn't exactly consider national anthems and flags as folklore. They usually are adopted by governments and so have laws concerning their use. Especially considering how prevalent the two symbols are. The pledge is something I've only seen in public education, never really outside of that sphere. I'd consider the flag and anthem far more important than the pledge since both are used far more often.
This was all before they added the "Under God". So yeah, students are allowed to dissent - just like they were allowed to stand aside as teachers led Christian prayers.
I would disagree with this comparison. The pledge has two words that are controversial. You rarely hear complaints about the rest of the pledge which is what effectively West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette (the 1943 case) ruled on, whereas school led monotheist prayers are a completely different case that Engel v. Vitale rightly stopped despite being allowed dissent. Would you object to teacher led prayers being said in a private Christian school?
Yup. The conflation of "Religionness!" with "Morality", (and the need for public schools to instil/reinforce moral instruction) often leads there.
"You cant have right and wrong without GOD!!" the religiouisity types squeal. Same old story. Same old song and dance.
Is there any point to this post aside from holier than thou grandstanding? I'd like to think there is something in here actually constructive.
Yup. The conflation of "Religionness!" with "Morality", (and the need for public schools to instil/reinforce moral instruction) often leads there.
"You cant have right and wrong without GOD!!" the religiouisity types squeal. Same old story. Same old song and dance.
It's actually ironic, as the God I see in the Bible (Jesus not counting, as there is nothing to say he is/was God) is not a moral one. Certainly the mass condemnation, rape and fossilisation are not messages I'd want my children reciting at Sunday school.
How much of the Bible have you read? Just curious to know where in the Bible God rapes. Also, what do you mean by fossilization.