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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 71 (27.7%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 114 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 681425 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2280 on: June 28, 2015, 05:30:37 pm »

Fickle Albion in splendid isolation pursued shekels above conflict, America is pretty much the same except they're more about maintaining petroshekel than getting shekels. And they're not very good at it. I would not argue that both were addicted to war in quite the same level. Also America's already lost, because they write their own history books, except not really. Pax Murrica definitely existed, they emerged from WWII as the only nuclear power, had the fuckhuegest economy, had a population and industry untouched by the war and their military went from being large to the best. Second largest air force in the world being the US Navy was for a reason. Now they're well ded, even if its politicians are in denial. Can't do shit in the ME, can't do shit in the Black Sea, now the Pacific Ocean is being pressured.
Also their religious convictions are being all undermined as they enter the godless states phase that Yurop has already embraced, meaning their people have been thrown into glorious disunity within the United States of Murica.
Admittedly that last remark was added in just to keep this tangentially on topic. There a thread where this'd be more on point?

Bohandas

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2281 on: June 28, 2015, 05:43:30 pm »

We're still one of only a handful of nations with the ICBM's necessary to actually deliver a nuclear strike. And ultimately it's nuclear strike capacity that matters. As long as we have it we cannot be defeated, the best anyone can hope for is a tie. Glory be to the BOMB and to the holy fallout as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be. He descendeth from the outermost part of Heaven and nothing is hidden from the heat thereof; there are neither words nor language but all the world can hear his voice.
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wierd

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2282 on: June 28, 2015, 05:45:21 pm »

I GLOW WITH HIS INNER LIGHT! 

Wait, Cerenkov radiation doesn't count as inner light? Well DAMN!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 05:47:03 pm by wierd »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2283 on: June 28, 2015, 05:48:56 pm »

Hahaha, no you can suffer fates worse than death and have your nation corroded from within, like a bunch of frogs not noticing the temperature was raised day after day until it was boiling point. The BOMB is as useful as France. Very useful, yes, but the range is limited and the situational scope not as broad as one would like, and prone to being ineffectual at surprising times.

wierd

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2284 on: June 28, 2015, 05:53:08 pm »

Especially since the US has not manufactured any new warheads since the cold war, and the viability of the warheads is kinda tied to the shelflife of the materials inside them. Many of the missiles in mothballs wouldnt detonate properly anyway nowdays.

Russia knows that. Why do you think Putin is pushing the envelope by saying he will resume nuke production?

No, the only weapon the US really has, is that the IMF still bases all global economic activity models on the dollar as the reserve currency. The only option the US has really is the thermonuclear self-financial-meltdown option.

That could change though, if the US decides to become Fascist America 2.0 instead of "Fascist-Lite America".
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2285 on: June 28, 2015, 05:55:27 pm »

It's impossible for America to become fascist, they're too progressive for that

wierd

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2286 on: June 28, 2015, 06:39:20 pm »

Clearly, you are unacquainted with our corporations, who own government.

The corporate mentality is about as close to neofascism as you can get.  Get some people like Trump in office, and off you go.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2287 on: June 28, 2015, 06:40:58 pm »

I agree with you m9 just making banter

Calidovi

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2288 on: June 28, 2015, 07:17:28 pm »

Clearly, you are unacquainted with our corporations, who own government.

The corporate mentality is about as close to neofascism as you can get.  Get some people like Trump in office, and off you go.

Could you explain the corporate mentality's relation to neofascism? I'm not the most political of sorts, but I don't really see anything inherently direct.

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Bohandas

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2289 on: June 28, 2015, 11:07:40 pm »

Clearly, you are unacquainted with our corporations, who own government.

The corporate mentality is about as close to neofascism as you can get.  Get some people like Trump in office, and off you go.

Could you explain the corporate mentality's relation to neofascism? I'm not the most political of sorts, but I don't really see anything inherently direct.

Well, instead of everything existing to serve the state, everything exists to serve the corporations that control the state
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wierd

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2290 on: June 28, 2015, 11:17:57 pm »

Divorce yourself from the "Fascists == nazis" mindset. That is simply not true. Nazis WERE fascists, but not all fascists are or were nazis.

The defining characteristic of a fascist government model, is one where corporate power and government power are one and the same. In this definition, "Corporate" is more the "Bodies corporate" definition; corporate trade groups that represent the interests of tradesmen and industry.

Things like the RIAA and pals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

To accomplish this, corporate power is consolidated into the hands of a dictator, or other authoritarian regime, which then directly controls both government and industry. Unlike Communism, which seeks to redistribute wealth, Fascism makes no such effort, and has no such tenet. It instead DOES seek profit, and operates under the principle that what is good for the government and industry, is good for the nation as a whole, and thus good for its citizens as well. As such, it has no qualms at all about using military might to seize assets it finds valuable or desirable.  Since corporate power and government power are one in the same, what industry wants, is what industry gets. Fascist regimes almost always employ hyper-nationalistic fervor to make the rank and file population obedient and pliant to the desires and actions of the state and its industrial might.  The nazi party went so far as to attempt to create a mythical/magical basis for its rule, enshrining the citizenry of Germany as literal demigods, along with powerful nationalistic slogans and propaganda.

US corporations are very much fascist in construction; While there is a board of directors that is elected by share holders, the majority stake holders are the real power. Often, those people are also the CEO, CIO, CFO, and pals.  Since modern corporations differ significantly from the bodies corporate type corporations of the past, the proper term is "neofascist".  Nobody within an organization tells the CEO he cannot do something without there being reprocussions, excepting perhaps, the legal department.  Corporations run very much like a fascist regime, where the growth and profit of the company is seen as beneficial for all members of the company, from CEO to schlum worker in the basement.  As such, the growth, expansion, and might of the company are seen as the single paramount thing to fixate on, and the CEO has nearly unlimited power within his corporation.

Given that corporations, and in particular, their lobbyists, have a revolving door with important positions of power within the US government, and that most modern legislation is just the government rubberstamping what industry wants (See TPP and pals), the US has taken on a distinctly fascist aftertaste. Hence my referring to it as "Fascist Lite". This is NOT HELPED AT ALL by the "My Country: Love it or leave it!" types, who's nationalism and semi-religious dogma (discussed earlier) are at extremes rivaling that of the Nazi party.

Donald Trump lives in the world of the CEO.  He's poised to attempt claiming the presidency.  DO NOT ELECT HIM. He would attempt to run the US government like it was a modern US corporation, with him as the CEO. The US would become distinctly neofascist under that kind of regime, and what industry wants, industry would get. Even more than it does now.



The NeoCons of the current US politic are very much in line with many of the definitions used by various political thinkers for Fascism.

Seriously, read these, then think critically about the US government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 11:49:08 pm by wierd »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2291 on: June 29, 2015, 05:56:09 am »

The 'my country love it or leave it' types are in the minority weird. The majority of useful idiots are now the ones who legitimately defended Obama, PRISM and killing the "traitor Edmund Snowdon" because criticizing Obama = no gay marriage, support curtailing free speech because hate speech is not free speech (and of course, hate being as nebulous as terror) and an infinite utiization of identity politics to drown out any reasonable discourse in a sea of raceb8

Persus13

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2292 on: June 29, 2015, 09:02:20 am »

As interesting reading this discussion has been (partly because I can't understand a fourth of what y'all were saying), you really should take it somewhere else, since religion and spirituality was last mentioned 2 pages ago.
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scrdest

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2293 on: June 29, 2015, 09:55:01 am »

Divorce yourself from the "Fascists == nazis" mindset. That is simply not true. Nazis WERE fascists, but not all fascists are or were nazis.

The defining characteristic of a fascist government model, is one where corporate power and government power are one and the same. In this definition, "Corporate" is more the "Bodies corporate" definition; corporate trade groups that represent the interests of tradesmen and industry.

Things like the RIAA and pals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
The 'corpora' in 'corporatism' refers to the original meaning, which is far broader. It's referring to a corporation in the way medieval universities were called corporations. From the Latin 'body', so a 'body of people'. An association, in other words. You've mentioned it yourself, but took it into a weird (dare I say - wierd?) direction.

RIAA is a corporation in that way, yeah. But that's a very sneaky way to smuggle in the implication that only modern-parlance corporations are corporations corporatism is concerned about.

In fact, it's quite the opposite in a way. Apple and Microsoft taken separately wouldn't be a corporation in that sense. Their interests are divergent. If they formed some kind of a, I'unno, Tech Industry Organization, that would be one - representing the interests of, well, Tech Industry. Corporatism - fascist or otherwise - was and is syndicalist in nature.

The distinction of 'neofascism' is one you've pretty much made up. There has never been a society of the kind you describe, so it's pretty much a Get Out Of Weak Analogy Free Card.

There is a major distinction between how a (mod. parl.) corporation is run and how a nation is run in one major and very important way. Being a part of a corporation isn't mandatory. If a CEO is being a shitler, you can leave the company. Or not apply in the first place. You cannot get fired from a fascist country you are born in. Only fired at. You can *escape* but we're talking legal ways.

So, this argument boils down to 'I don't like modern corporations and government favoritism thereof, therefore fascism'. The first sentence is fine and dandy, no objections here, but don't co-opt unrelated concepts to criticize it.
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Calidovi

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2294 on: June 29, 2015, 10:46:02 am »

-snip-

Thank you. I was confused in the usage of fascism to describe corporate ideals.
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