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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[TempAcc]

:v its kinda why I've come to apreciate hermeticism and spiritism, since those religions put value on living a good life.

In hermeticism, everything in the material world is evil, because it is corruptible, passible, movable and finite, even children, and only the realm of God is good, since only God is truly immortal, unmovable, imutable, incorruptible, etc; While Man is partially mortal (due to having physical existence) and immortal (due to having a mind/soul/spirit). Man is basically a minor god trapped in the physical reality, and the only way to free himself from it is by forgoing the vices of material life, the senses and generally being a good, charitable person, focusing on a spiritual lifestyle through the "strife of piety" and giving thanks to God, so that when you die, your mind lets go of the physical reality and ascend to the heavens.

But to do all that, you need to actualy live and pursue these things, so suicide/getting killed as a child basically screws up with your chances and forces you to start over by reincarnating.

Spiritism has a similar take on this. In spiritism your soul is in a constant process of evolution, and by pursuing a life of virtue and charity, you speed up your evolutionary process so that you may ascend to the next level of existence which is higher then human, but the process takes up several lifetimes so you're bound to keep reincarnating untill you've evolved enough. If you die as a child, you basically get stuck for a while, needing to heal for a bit before reincarnating again and continue the process.

[bahihs]

Well I know in islam there is a rather good quote which resolves the suicide paradox (and which I try to adhere to):

"Wish not for death any of you; neither the doer of good works, for peradventure he may increase them by an increase of life; nor the offender, for perhaps he may obtain the forgiveness of God by repentance." -Mohammed (PBUH)

So if you're a bad guy, you can still turn it around and do good. And if you're a good guy, then you can keep doing good. So there is no excuse for suicide so long as you think selflessly. And in a way, suicide can be quite selfish, in the sense that it only arises as an attractive option when thinking purely of the self (I speak from my own experiences, can't speak for others). That's the difference between martyrdom and suicide I suppose.

[fraxert]

And as G.K. Chesterton put forth in Orthodoxy, many, perhaps all, Christian virtues are a paradox of themselves.  The difference between martyrdom and suicide (as he puts it) is that one is a love of something else so strong that you are willing to toss aside what you have for it and that the other is loving everything else in the world so little that you want to see the last of it all.  It's, in his view, a replay of Eden: "do I love myself or someone else most?"  He also points out that it is a very personal insult to everything else; to say, by your deed, to the sea, the mountains, the living things, gold(,) and pretty women "I don't care to see you ever again."

EDIT:For those of you who need oxford commas.

[Helgoland]

I agree that Goldfinger was a great movie, but I don't know if I'd cite Shirley Eaton as a reason not to commit suicide, even if she's gold and pretty.

[Descan]

I hired Stalin and JFK for my bachelor party, if anyone wants to come.

[Frumple]

Are stalin's legs as amazing as rumors purport?

[TempAcc]

It is a well known fact that, among all the world leaders during ww2, hitler had the best legs, so you're missing out.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[wierd]

I dont know, but I would advise against it, since those two have been dead for half a century they are clearly flesh eating zombies by now. JFK especially hungers for brains.

Personally, I'd have suggested hiring Lenin, since he was so pickled by his preservation process that he at least wont have much of an odor aside from all the chemicals- but hey, to each their own.

[TempAcc]

Only in bay12 a discussion on religion and spirituality sometimes becomes a discussion on the implications of homosexual necrophilia.

I love you, bay12.

[TD1]

If that's what you love about Bay12, I wouldn't like to meet your SO

[bahihs]

Only in bay12 a discussion on religion and spirituality sometimes becomes a discussion on the implications of homosexual necrophilia.

I love you, bay12.

Well I mean...

It was inevitable

[Frumple]

Hey now, not just homosexual necrophilia. The ladies need some zombie lovin', too.

[TD1]

But that's just more of the Edward Cullen problem. No heartbeat means no...lovin'.

[Frumple]

If you need a heartbeat to make with the lovin', you're obviously not a proper undead and need to go back to undead school to learn how to brain. Don't need bloodflow to get yo' necrojiggy on.

Also, rigor mortis. You'd think it wouldn't work that way, but if all the zombie smut I've seen my lifetime (more than I ever wanted to see) tells anything, it's a different story.

[TD1]

Well....

Okay.

You are oddly knowledeable in this area.