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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Orange Wizard]

Well, we were starting to lean on the morality side of things (which I explicitly asked we avoid), so thanks for not letting that blow up.

[TD1]

Oh? Morals aren't allowed? Drat. I was hoping talk would swing by consequentialism and deontology, with a bit of virtue ethics thrown in. They're my current R.E. topics.

[Angle]

I think we can argue about morals, we're just not supposed to judge them.

[Descan]

Aye. That'd be immoral.

[TD1]

Oh. Sounds like there were some damn dodgy morals behind that decision.
(I joke  )
Descan Ninja.

Being a ninja is soooooo immoral.

[UXLZ]

If we interpret God as being the representation of the collective belief and consciousness of the humans at the time than Its personality change between the OT and NT make more sense. Literal-minded thinking is not the way to go.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, a truly Utterly Perfect Being contradicts its own existence. (Not to mention omnipotence is just flat out impossible. Something can be omnipotent 'by contrast' to, for instance, humans, but there are some boundaries which simply cannot be crossed.)
If we're deciding to take the Bible a bit more literally, can I please at least convince you that it is literally impossible for God to actually be omnipotent? (Vastly powerful, yes, but not all-powerful.)

[mastahcheese]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, a truly Utterly Perfect Being contradicts its own existence.

While I was at work, I had the strangest thought go through my head pertaining to this.

Satan: You're not all powerful and perfect! That contradicts itself!
God: Clearly you aren't thinking it through all the way.
Satan: If you're perfect and all powerful, than I bet you can't create an imperfect being!
God: Why would I create something imperfect? I can just make it perfect.
Satan: You're just saying that because you know you can't do it, which proves you're not all powerful!
God: ...

And thus, God created the world.

[origamiscienceguy]

It is my personal opinion that we humans just are unable to understand God which is why we see several Paradoxes in God. Maybe once we die we'll learn. That would also explain the confusing mess of the trinity.

[mastahcheese]

It is my personal opinion that we humans just are unable to understand God which is why we see several Paradoxes in God. Maybe once we die we'll learn. That would also explain the confusing mess of the trinity.

I've never been a fan of the "We'll understand when we're dead" concept. Maybe because you also can't find out if you're wrong until, you know, you're dead.

[origamiscienceguy]

'tis true. We also can't talk to anybody who has experienced it because they are dead.

There have been a few people who claim to have gone to heaven when they died but I am not putting any evidence with that because they could all be fake like this guy.

[TD1]

It is my personal opinion that we humans just are unable to understand God which is why we see several Paradoxes in God. Maybe once we die we'll learn. That would also explain the confusing mess of the trinity.

Yea... Hick's eschatological verification isn't the best. You know when you die, but that kind of implies you don't know now. If you don't know, then religion is all conjecture. No longer absolute. Your religion relies on knowing things not guessing.

[Rolan7]

Okay I'm in no state to confirm this myself but, today I heard that the thigh is a euphemism for genitalia in the bible!

So when Jacob was wrestling God...

And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

Again, I can't confirm this at all, but I'm having a real mature laugh about it right now.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[UXLZ]

I'm not saying that God can't be extremely, absurdly powerful (pops galaxies at a whim sort of powerful,) but It is not omnipotent. It just isn't, It can't be. As I said, a Perfect Being's (and I mean 100%, truly and utterly perfect) own existence is a contradiction to itself.

[Orange Wizard]

I'm not saying that God can't be extremely, absurdly powerful (pops galaxies at a whim sort of powerful,) but It is not omnipotent. It just isn't, It can't be. As I said, a Perfect Being's (and I mean 100%, truly and utterly perfect) own existence is a contradiction to itself.

The issue with this is (I think) that you're using a nonstandard definition of perfect, which (Biblically) usually translates to "flawless" or "without error", rather than all-encompassing or whatever.

Also, you don't really validate how being perfect contradicts being perfect in the first place, but I digress.