Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Orange Wizard]

I don't think we need to dredge up that drama.

This.

Though thanks for the reference, Bohandas.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

ptw

[TD1]

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/stephen.fry.says.god.is.capricious.mean.minded.stupid.but.lets.not.get.angry/47174.htm

So, what do y'all think about 1) the video and 2) the article's response.

I, for one, think that the face of the interviewer is a picture, and that the article downplays the issue into something personal with Stephen Fry, and misses the actual points he's raising.

[Arx]

Dammit Dwarfy, you posted that about a minute after I shut down my PC.

I don't know if I'll have time to look at it tomorrow. Hopefully I will, but if not I won't until Friday at the soonest.

[Descan]

1) "Only broken people turn to atheism."

2) "You're secretly a Christian because we have a monopoly on morality (and having an ideal world!)"

3) "That's not REALLY Christianity!"

Not worth the electrons it took to print that trite.

I'm also curious on how the Fall of Man creates flesh-eating bacteria and bone cancer. >_>

[TD1]

Also of note is that he keeps calling it "Fry's outburst" and such other descriptions which, perhaps unintentionally, try to suggest that Fry was giving an uncontrolled argument from anger. I saw a rather calm and collected person giving a view which quite accurately reflects my own. If God is real, evidence from the world around us would suggest he's not the best deity. He has killed more than the devil could ever dream of doing (he's wiped out cities, and even the entire population bar one family.)

[Rolan7]

Morals obviously existed for tens of thousands of years before Christ did or didn't make his universal worse-than-death threat.  And even since then, no matter your religion, over 68% of the world gets by without it.  Humans are social creatures who naturally congregate and form moral codes... everywhere.  I don't mind admitting that I hate item 2 and feel personally offended whenever someone states it.

Also, Arx and someone else made some very compelling replies to one of my posts about Jesus (based on the Bible), and I mean to address some of those points and admit defeat on others.  I've just been busy, sorry.

[Orange Wizard]

It's worth noting that the laws in the Bible claim to be objective morality, as opposed to the subjective morals created by various civilisations over millennia.
There's a lot of overlap because some things are simply necessary for a functioning society, as opposed to those things being based on the Bible. Which, incidentally, is why I want to laugh when people say "oh but you see, laws today are from the Bible!"

[MonkeyHead]

It's worth noting that the laws in the Bible claim to be objective morality, as opposed to the subjective morals created by various civilisations over millennia.
There's a lot of overlap because some things are simply necessary for a functioning society, as opposed to those things being based on the Bible. Which, incidentally, is why I want to laugh when people say "oh but you see, laws today are from the Bible!"

Well, to be fair, in a large way, most Christian heritage or post-Christian nations did base their legal systems on what it said in the bible - the fact that what is in the bible appears elsewhere is kind of irrelevant in that context.

[Orange Wizard]

Yeah, that's certainly true. But the overwhelming majority of countries make things like murder or theft illegal, and this douchebag had never even heard of the Bible.

[Arx]

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/stephen.fry.says.god.is.capricious.mean.minded.stupid.but.lets.not.get.angry/47174.htm

So, what do y'all think about 1) the video and 2) the article's response.

I, for one, think that the face of the interviewer is a picture, and that the article downplays the issue into something personal with Stephen Fry, and misses the actual points he's raising.

It is definitely something he cares quite a lot about. He's definitely passionate on the topic, although to say he's speaking from anger is definitely a long stretch. I think the journalist is... not doing as well as they could. Trying to reduce his points to 'Oh the poor guy must have had a bad experience' is, as has been observed, not effective.

The second two points don't seem to have much to do with the video, to be honest. Descan has them pretty nailed, although more bluntly than I would have.

[chaoticag]

Well, to be fair, in a large way, most Christian heritage or post-Christian nations did base their legal systems on what it said in the bible - the fact that what is in the bible appears elsewhere is kind of irrelevant in that context.

Well, it depends. Napoleonic Code really wasn't based on the bible, and the ten commandments aren't enshrined in any nation-state I know of. Modern nation states have law codes more in common with ancient roman law compared to biblical law it seems. Even then, if murder was illegal before Christianity, would it make sense to claim that now that a nation went through a period where Christianity was dominant, that law was based on biblical ideals? It just doesn't seem to follow.

Are there some examples of this around though? I'm interested in knowing more at least.

[Sheb]

Not entirely, the bit of Roman law that really inspired the western continental legal tradition is the Justinian Code, which date from after the conversion of the Empire to Christianity.

[chaoticag]

Oh huh. Well, shows what I know about Roman laws. Guess I was wrong on my point to an extent then. Still, not sure if I'd say Justinian was biblical in its roots, or what even being biblical in roots would look like.