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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Bohandas]

What I hate about the bible, koran.
Is that it attempts to remove you from the fact that you are an animal, you will kill, steal, fornicate, lust, belive in something out there. Its hard wired. Now obvioisly we need selfcontrol for the oh so great society, but does it have to be instilled in you by fear for a punishment of agony and eternity.
You can learn that your thoughts are not you. That your ego is not you.
Seriously, dont change your religion or even your thoughts. Just learn how to meditate.
I could post a guide up if you are willing. But its easily found on the internets.

It takes alot of practice though. You must remember that it is a skill not an ability.
Most people who meditate (personal exp) are just thinking with closed eyes.
Its also not about thinking of nothing, but about realising your thought patterns and looking at your consciousness.

Also if humans have souls so do animals.

This is why I like the Book of Ecclesiastes despite having a low opinion of most of the rest of the bible (except for parts of the gospel for their philosophy, and Exodus, Ezekiel, and Revelations as sources of material for movies).

Ecclesiastes has several passages comparing humans to beasts in a neutral-ish fashion.

[Orange Wizard]

The Bible is pretty clear that humans are greater than animals. We're described as the greatest part of Creation in several places.

We've also had the souls discussion several times in other threads. There's no basis to assume anything has a soul, other than religious texts stating that they do, and none of them can agree on what has a soul and what the bloody thing is in the first place.

...

Ecclesiastes is a weird one. I should probably look into that, so we can have a bit more discussion on the topic.

...

Funny. The only things I need to have a "religious" or "spiritual" experience is the night sky, and the understanding of exactly what it actually is.

The night sky is pretty awesome. Literally awesome, even - in the sense that it inspires awe.

[Bohandas]

((.... I accidentaly read that as LSD through the whole hint and was so confused...))

No, that's distilled religion. Mormonism can't compete with that.

[Bohandas]

The Bible is pretty clear that humans are greater than animals. We're described as the greatest part of Creation in several places.

We've also had the souls discussion several times in other threads. There's no basis to assume anything has a soul, other than religious texts stating that they do, and none of them can agree on what has a soul and what the bloody thing is in the first place.

...

Ecclesiastes is a weird one. I should probably look into that, so we can have a bit more discussion on the the topic.

Here's the main relevent passage:

"18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts." 19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. " - Ecclesiastes 3:18-19

[That Wolf]

Nice quote.

I dislike that the bible says we are gods greatest creation. God must make alot of terrible things.
We arnt perfect its bullshit to say we are.
We are however equal to bacteria and trees.
Perfect ptttf.
Good joke bible. Try to make me think im the best and deserve to go to 'Heaven' so I will follow your scipture and become a little soldier for your pathetic war. Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.

[Orange Wizard]

Here's the main relevent passage:

"18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts." 19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. " - Ecclesiastes 3:18-19

Interesting. I'll have to get back to you on that one. I don't really know what to make of it at this point.

...

I dislike that the bible says we are gods greatest creation. God must make alot of terrible things.
We arnt perfect its bullshit to say we are.
We are however equal to bacteria and trees.
Perfect ptttf.
Good joke bible. Try to make me think im the best and deserve to go to 'Heaven' so I will follow your scipture and become a little soldier for your pathetic war. Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.

That's not what the Bible says at all. It says that we - humans, every one of us - are corrupt and broken, and that it's our own fault.
We are greater than bacteria and trees in the sense that we are made in God's image. We can think and reason (as many of you here have shown great proficiency at such), and do many other things that bacteria cannot even dream of because they don't have functioning brains.

Of course, such philosophy is irrelevant if you think the Bible is meaningless claptrap. That's perfectly acceptable. I'm not saying this is what you should believe.

In either case, please keep your tone respectful.

E: Apparently my tone got a bit ranty here. Ugh. Hypocrisy galore, it would seem.

[That Wolf]

Sorry orange for my obviously readable tone haha.

How is me being corrupt my our fault,

If god created this place just to make me sin. Seems a round about way of creating things to just discard when you were going to discard anyway

Wise people can give excellent advice but can be living a terrible life themselves. I have proof to this claim

So god, despite being infinately wise seems to be making bad life choices itself...does this sound funny or wrong?

[Orange Wizard]

Because he wants to.

That's the only answer I can give, really. God does what he does because he wants to.

[That Wolf]

Because he wants to.

That's the only answer I can give, really. God does what he does because he wants to.

There we have it people.
We do what we do because we want to.
Enlightenment doesnt equal happiness, but I can lead to it.

Cue perspirational music

[Arx]

Perspirational?

And on the subject of Ecclesiastes,

"Meaningless! Meaningless! Everything is meaningless" -Ecclesiastes 1:1.

I would be shy of taking it too close to heart.

[UXLZ]

Admittedly quite a good point, however.

At least, assuming one is talking about objective meaning.

[That Wolf]

Perspirational?

Yeah music that makes you sweat.
Music with a beat.
Music that when you play makes you sweat.

And everything is meaningless. Why should it have an aswer.
There isnt really a question..

How good is music though.
No one hates music.

[Orange Wizard]

How good is music though.
No one hates music.

Sadly, this isn't the music thread.

...

I don't think we even have a music thread. Huh.

[itisnotlogical]

Is it at all strange to be atheist, yet still believe in souls/spirits and an afterlife? My reasons for disagreeing with mainstream Christianity are mostly emotional and spiritual rather than scientific, so I still have some belief that there's a place beyond life, and an invisible "life force" that makes living things... well, alive. But I don't believe that there's a creator especially invested in our well-being.

[That Wolf]

Is it at all strange to be atheist, yet still believe in souls/spirits and an afterlife? My reasons for disagreeing with mainstream Christianity are mostly emotional and spiritual rather than scientific, so I still have some belief that there's a place beyond life, and an invisible "life force" that makes living things... well, alive. But I don't believe that there's a creator especially invested in our well-being.

Strange, yes. Most like likely correct, yes.
No single god exsists. paradoxes exist within eachother. There are things that are what we would call a god though.
When you die you stop being you. So yes many people are right and that you have one life. They just dont realise they are talking about their egos life.
This mask we make our whole lives to live behind, to be unique. You are a sentient sack of meat that is dying, get over the fear of it and live.