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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[penguinofhonor]

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[Frumple]

I'm not really sure if that would count as non-mean, though, since if it's actual isolation an eternity of that would be among the absolute worst tortures you can inflict upon a human. Admittedly it wouldn't take very long before you're completely bughumping insane, but the christian god being what it is you'd probably be reset after a bit of that so you can experience it all over again.

I guess maybe non-mean as possible would still sorta' fit -- assuming the divine entity in question is in fact a sadistic monster that absolutely has to viciously torture non-beleivers, anyway -- but it's still brutally sadistic...

Honestly, christian afterlife is another of those aspects of the faith I tend to avoid contemplation of. All descriptions of it, for anyone involved, sound kinda' horrifying

E: Well, except for the simple destruction one. That one's alright. Non-existence gets a pass.

[penguinofhonor]

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[BurnedToast]

What's the point of this besides trying to think of a hell that's as non-mean to nonbelievers as possible? It's an interesting thought experiment, but why would someone believe it besides "It'd be nice if this were true"?

Why should that stop anyone? Why does anyone need any other reason? Isn't that pretty much just religion in general summed up in one neat line?

There have been hundreds or thousands of religions that have existed throughout history. Even if you assume one of them is actually correct, the majority of humans who have ever lived have still been believing untrue things based on nothing more then "It'd be nice if this was true".

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

One of my larger basis(es?) on why I still believe in Christianity is because it has quite a bit of historical backing.
There is sufficient evidence to prove some bits of it, and that's a whole lot better for me than believing that the wirlpools in the ocean are giant monsters and that the world is governed by patron gods who are at constant war with each other and the only after life existing for common folk is that of hades eternal suffrage.

And yes I know there are other religions with decent historical backing on their events but like I said this is just one of the reasons why I still believe

[Frumple]

I'm assuming that if an sufficiently powerful god is keeping people alive forever with the intention of not torturing them (also assuming that's the intention here), he can do something to make it non-torturous.

Eh, fair enough. I'm not really sure how you could do it and not rip out huge chunks of what makes humans humans, but you could go that route.

[Quartz_Mace]

Skeptical Catholic here. Still mostly Catholic because I don't believe all of the religion's beliefs, but rather because it is the closest religion to what I truly believe that I have found so far.

Personally, I believe that their is one God(dess; gender may or may not apply) and afterlife is a Heaven for those who have lived their lives trying to do well, and a hell where wrongdoers are punished. I believe that if you truly believe your religion, do what you believe is right, and do what you believe will lead you to salvation, most, if not all religions can be a path to God.

On the subject of Jesus, I sometimes wonder if him being called the "Son of God" meant that only in the sense that all males are "sons of God" and all females are "daughters of God", but ended up being misinterpreted. Either way, I believe he existed, and agree with many of his teachings on love and behavior.

[penguinofhonor]

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[Ghills]

I'm assuming that if an sufficiently powerful god is keeping people alive forever with the intention of not torturing them (also assuming that's the intention here), he can do something to make it non-torturous.

Depends on what qualifies as torturous, I think. LDS theology says that heaven/hell is just being stuck with people like you...but if you're bad enough, that can be pretty bad.

The LDS understanding of eternal punishment basically boils down to 'Hell is recognizing how badly you messed up, and being stuck with similar people for eternity'.  They're not actively tortured, but are left without much power, glory or various eternal benefits, and are the very last in line to get their bodies back (LDS believe that everyone gets their bodies back, just some get it a lot sooner).  It's generally considered horrifying and shameful in the same way that people who wasted their lives are horrified at being compared to people who made good choices, but it's also simply a natural consequence of their priorities in life.

The 3 degrees of glory take effect post-Spirit-World, where everyone gets the Gospel preached to them and a chance to accept it if they want. They are:

1) Celestial, where God lives and everything is awesome. Getting in here requires making eternal covenants with God. Compared to the sun.

2) Terrestial, where honorable and good people live, who maybe followed the Gospel but weren't valiant in it, or who were just good people and always tried to do the best but don't want the Gospel. Compared to the moon.

3) Telestial, comprised of liars, whoremongers, adulterers, etc. People who deliberately made bad choices.  Compared to the stars.

That's the end of the those who receive glory. 

The worst punishment is 'outer darkness', reserved for people who genuinely embraced evil, and they basically are cut off from being powerful and awesome forever due to their deliberate embracing of bad, abusive and vile decisions. 

"For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;" Doctine & Covenants 76: 111   There's a bunch more in 76 outlining how people will be organized in the different degrees, it's pretty interesting https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

((.... I accidentaly read that as LSD through the whole hint and was so confused...))

[Ghills]

What's the point of this besides trying to think of a hell that's as non-mean to nonbelievers as possible? It's an interesting thought experiment, but why would someone believe it besides "It'd be nice if this were true"?

Why should that stop anyone? Why does anyone need any other reason? Isn't that pretty much just religion in general summed up in one neat line?

There have been hundreds or thousands of religions that have existed throughout history. Even if you assume one of them is actually correct, the majority of humans who have ever lived have still been believing untrue things based on nothing more then "It'd be nice if this was true".

That doesn't line up with my experience with religion at all. For example, Cryxis said he's worried his friends might go to Hell. If he believed whatever made him happiest, I'm sure he'd believe all his friends are going to heaven with him no matter what. Religion makes plenty of people sad or angry or inadequate sometimes, but they stick to it.

So I want to know what grounds this specific belief beyond wishful thinking, because in my experience with religion there's usually something doing that.

I've tried out the parts of the Gospel that I can test. They work. It's a repeatable experiment (for me). I take the rest on faith - LDS theology hangs together pretty logically, and the parts I am absolutely sure of lead to the parts that I'm still studying.

Now, it's only a repeatable experiment for me. I can't make anyone else have a religious experience or get revelation (and in fact, people are generally barred from receiving revelation for others). That's part of faith too - being able to take others' words for something until you can try it out sufficiently.  I've done that with enough parts of the Gospel to feel confident it's the correct way to live life and provides the best way for me to understand why I'm here and what will happen when I'm not.  You're right that it's not always comforting or happy. Eternal covenants are a lot to live up to. There's a lot I have to forgo, people I worry about. But after seeing how much better life can be like this, I wouldn't want it any other way, despite the struggle.

((.... I accidentaly read that as LSD through the whole hint and was so confused...))

ROFL.  Don't worry, you're not the only one.

[Arcvasti]

1) Celestial, where God lives and everything is awesome. Getting in here requires making eternal covenants with God. Compared to the sun.

Relevent

[Frumple]

I can't make anyone else have a religious experience [...]

Heh, you actually can if you're willing to perform a bit of medical malpractice. Religious experiences can be induced by screwing with the brain in the right way, though we've probably got a bit to go before it becomes an entirely safe process. There's really not much to it beyond the proper neurological stimulation, yah. Is why so many different processes, religious and otherwise, can induce 'em.

Another handful of decades and we'll probably even have the methodology and technology to be able to do so consistently and (mostly) harmlessly, without the current crude monkeying about with meditation, psychoactives, and the like.

[MaximumZero]

Funny. The only things I need to have a "religious" or "spiritual" experience is the night sky, and the understanding of exactly what it actually is.

Edit: clarity

[That Wolf]

What I hate about the bible, koran.
Is that it attempts to remove you from the fact that you are an animal, you will kill, steal, fornicate, lust, belive in something out there. Its hard wired. Now obvioisly we need selfcontrol for the oh so great society, but does it have to be instilled in you by fear for a punishment of agony and eternity.
You can learn that your thoughts are not you. That your ego is not you.
Seriously, dont change your religion or even your thoughts. Just learn how to meditate.
I could post a guide up if you are willing. But its easily found on the internets.

It takes alot of practice though. You must remember that it is a skill not an ability.
Most people who meditate (personal exp) are just thinking with closed eyes.
Its also not about thinking of nothing, but about realising your thought patterns and looking at your consciousness.

Also if humans have souls so do animals.