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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[origamiscienceguy]

I am a protestant, so we don't celebrate it heavily, but I know people who become vegetarians during this period.

[Frumple]

No actualy I am asking to make sure this is my god, and not some hypothetical devil or some other. Just because something posing as god tells me to do something doesn't mean I have to do it, I need to know it is god

... how would you tell? The judeochristian god is noted in biblical text as commanding some pretty horrible things and... not stopping it. Issac is one thing, but the bits where forces under god's command ripped pregnant women to pieces (hosea 13, nach) and whatnot are... there.

More generally, how can one be sure of anything in the bible itself if you believe there is a being capable of genuinely posing as the divine? That would seem to undermine the basis of... basically everything. Infinite deceiver can infinitely deceive. You open up the possibility that the entire belief system is, in fact, a grand scheme to damn billions. In the case of systems where salvation is contingent on specific beliefs -- like belief in the divinity of Jesus -- simply having attributed the acts in the original text to the wrong person would seem able to doom the souls of the entire religion's following in one stroke...

---

Which leads to a question. Is there actually anywhere in the bible where demons or whathaveyou do pose as YWHW? Know there's bits with false gods or whatev', but what about the proposed genuine article? What about other holy texts? Demons posing as (one of the) god(s) is a pretty common thing in discourse and whatnot, but I'm actually having a little trouble recalling cases of it being in actual canon texts and such. Usually it's either of some lesser being or a different critter (false god, opposing god, etc.), from what I can remember...

[origamiscienceguy]

As far as I remember, no demon has ever posed as God. Demons have, however, showed humans their power and got them to accept possession. Never claiming to be God though.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

There have however been people who pose as god or Christ or a prophet.

The old testiment IIRC showed that there was going to be a coming of a sacrifice (there were many comparable things between (Isac, I know I spelt it wrong but cut me some slack I'm tired) and Jesus) in the form of god's son.
Then Jesus appears, gets crucified, lives a sinless (by the records which I choose to believe) life, and dies to save our sins (not in this exact order :p )
Sure he could be a false prophet, in which case my beliefs are also riding on the Old Testament so it looks like I don't know where I'm going but it's better than hell.

[Bohandas]

The old testiment IIRC showed that there was going to be a coming of a sacrifice (there were many comparable things between (Isac, I know I spelt it wrong but cut me some slack I'm tired) and Jesus) in the form of god's son.

...just like how Nostradomus "predicted" 9/11.

EDIT:
That's the great thing about non-literal writing; it matches up to just about anything you want it to, because there's very little if anything that it doesn't say.

EDIT:
Did that come off as confrontational? If so, then sorry.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Just a bit...

[That Wolf]

In following rules centered around good thinking does one achive a state of goodness?
Knowing the concepts of goodness, does this make you good?

Ignorance of the bad, hiding from it does this make you good?
Killing the ignorant and the destroyer, is this goodness

Over zealosy, and passion for one goal/idea/deity is it a good thing?
How much do you love? Could you measure it?
Why do we love?
Why must we serve? Be it money, our dog, cats, a deity, sensation, exhilaration.whatever.


Personal notes will offend highly, bordering on platinum banhammering material
This is AO material and a parental guardian is highly advised

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like to think of budisim, krishna cult and hinduism as divine protestors, claiming reincarnation and the earth realm is suffering (ill get back to suffering soon) and they are protesting modesy in living and self realisation so godhead gets bored with the noncompliant soul and just fucking promotes it to heaven after continued lives of disobediance the gods finaly just give up and say "shit this fulla doesnt give up his protests, give them their demands!. Quickly now they are blocking my veiw of the funny head injuries that skateborders get, especialy when they imediatly start convulsing and foaming at the mouth"
Boom you are dharma, you got a universe and peace of mind. Later that day you lose it "cause you wherent being disobediant" aww fuck you god. Then you are in a demons body thinking "Hells yeah this is sweet, look at my pure adulterated ignorance doesnt it shine so bright". Boom vishnu appears before you and just fucking chakrams your head clear off. Oh you mean you didnt fix your karma... here is another demons body mr soul, oops here comes child lord krishna he couldnt possibly harm me... "whats the bow for kid"
And so on... kindof like the bibles hell.
Yeah some pass the dharma stage. But thats no fun being a citizen of a reachable galaxy in our universe with the ability to do much as you please and flutter around like pixes and fairys with four arms and access to any paraphernalia you wish.
Back to suffering, its a very broad category, what I think budda meant about it was that longing for that constant something but never being able to remain in stasis happily, obviously because of material conditioning and laws requireing us to "fuel up".
I dont care if you cant understand me. My only emotion towards this is sympathy for your ignorance.
Thus far I have not heard anyone say anything about their RL experiences. The feelings discovered.
The title should have spirituality removed. Its just bible quotes yay, seriously I have books for reading quotes.
Where are the stories here that are about you helping homeless and drug addicts? The stories about you letting a stranger inside your home because it was pissing down raininghard/snowing, im really disappointed people.
Yeah you could get brutaly murdered but 'godbro' would see your good heart and pat you on the head.

I miss K33n, made things spicy and spices make things tasty

I wish I was a smart as the rest of you geeks. But im not.
Im more cunning though

[Rolan7]

The sad truth is that, as cool as prophecies are, we tend to suffer from a lot of confirmation bias about them.  That's why things like horoscopes and tarot cards can work.  When we want to believe, we see the situation in a way which meets our expectations.  This isn't limited to spirituality by any stretch, it's the main reason people disagree about *anything* and get so entrenched in their views.

I looked through a (skeptic's) list of Jesus prophecies, looking for one about him being the son of God.  The closest I could find was Hosea 11:1.  Matthew quotes it:

2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Seems like a pretty clear prophecy.  It's not like Jesus was born in Egypt, but by fleeing to it at a young age, God can then call him out of it later.

Except the actual Hosea verse is... well, here:

11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

It's a reference to the Exodus, not Jesus.  Israel is the figurative son of God.  The context of the chapter is clear about that, but here's more support from Exodus:

4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

So that particular "prophecy" wasn't a prophecy at all, just a reminder of God's previous acts for Israel.

The only other prophecy (that I could find, anyway) of Jesus as God's son is Isaiah 7:14.  Here's what Matthew says:

1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

And here's the prophecy from Isaiah.  I suggest following the link because it's an... interesting prophecy, which I can't do justice to without a massive quote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/7.html

7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,   
7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.   
7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.   
7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?   
7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

To summarize:  The king of Judah, Ahaz, is worried about Syria (as he should be, it turns out later).  God promises that Syria won't defeat Judah and replace him as king.  And God volunteers a sign, in this context:  A "virgin" will bear a child named Immanuel.
So there are a few problems with this prophecy as relates to Jesus.
1) Jesus arrived far too late to reassure Judah about the coming invasion from Syria.  (Apparently Syria kicked ass and took slaves... but didn't place a king, so God was right).
2) Jesus was never called Immanuel
3) The word in Isaiah apparently translates to "young woman", not "virgin".  At least according to some scholars.

So this prophecy also was mistakenly associated with Jesus by Matthew.

And...  Those were the only two prophecies I could find which supposedly predicted Jesus's divine or virgin birth.  Also, divine/virgin birth was super common among mythological heroes, as this list shows:
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I could have sworn Jesus was called Emmanuel within his life...

[Baffler]

To the 12 Catholics here/other denominations that do it: what are you doing for Lent? I'm going to be joining the Catholics for a fast tomorrow. Considered giving up coffee for Lent, but let's not be reckless here.

I haven't decided yet. I'm divided on what to give up, but I'm fairly certain that I'll start volunteering at the parish soup kitchen.

[MonkeyHead]

I could have sworn Jesus was called Emmanuel within his life...

Well... having a dig around on that word is kind of interesting. It literally is a masculine name meaning "God is with us". It appears in the book of Isiah, and also in the Gospel of Matthew. However, Matthew uses the Greek translation rather than the Hebrew one. Apparently, according to Wikipedia, it was common in Jewish writing of the time to reinterpret the scriptures in order to signify a new meaning, so putting great stock in the claims in the NT might be a less than safe approach when considering prophecy. Wikipedia also notes that the gospel of Matthew was probably written in the last two decades of the 1st century, by a highly educated Jew who believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah. It seems that in turn the gospels move the goalposts somewhat, quoting the Wikipedia article:

At first, titles such as "Messiah" and "son of God" had described Jesus's future nature at the "deutera parousia", the Second Coming; but very soon he came to be recognised as having become the Son of God at the resurrection; then, in Mark, he becomes Son of God at his baptism; and finally Matthew and Luke add infancy narratives in which Jesus is the Son of God from the very beginning

It is easy to retcon things to match prophecy after the event - so not really within his life, it seems. After all, there are no really detailed references to Jesus from during his life.

[ShadowHammer]

To the 12 Catholics here/other denominations that do it: what are you doing for Lent? I'm going to be joining the Catholics for a fast tomorrow. Considered giving up coffee for Lent, but let's not be reckless here.

I intend to not eat junk food.

[Helgoland]

To the 12 Catholics here/other denominations that do it: what are you doing for Lent? I'm going to be joining the Catholics for a fast tomorrow. Considered giving up coffee for Lent, but let's not be reckless here.

I think I'll get into premarital intercourse, but that's less a matter of it being lent and more of a matter of having someone to do it with.

[Frumple]

I guess that could be considered fasting from chastity if you squint at it hard enough. Keep up the good works.

[That Wolf]

To the 12 Catholics here/other denominations that do it: what are you doing for Lent? I'm going to be joining the Catholics for a fast tomorrow. Considered giving up coffee for Lent, but let's not be reckless here.

I think I'll get into premarital intercourse, but that's less a matter of it being lent and more of a matter of having someone to do it with.

Im a touchy subject..

Wassup believers here is another silly wolf question: could god create a more powerfull god?

Another: God spoke to me last night and told me to find one of his followers, then to ask them to kill me.
Would you do it?
Could you do it?
Or would you say im crazy?
If im crazy, then what makes the prophets speak the truth?

I miss K33n and the comments that he/she made and then thread was blocked in fear the crusaders would rise and start purifying the non believers.
In fear

And they shall no [NOFEAR]