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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Rolan7]

The process of Christianity replacing the Roman/Greek pantheon isn't entirely clear (to me at least), however, some of the adoption was political, especially after Emperor Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion.

To me neither, tbh.  How did a cult of a cult achieve such heights?  I can't say whether it was sex or simply open-minded chance.
Or I guess, to stay impartial, divine provenance.

How did monotheism replace the inherent obvious default situation that there are many things in the dark?

[smjjames]

Dunno what cult you're saying Christianity arose from.... You mean John the Baptist?

[Rolan7]

Like John it was rather obviously from Judaism.

A cult like any other.  What impact should they have on what I experienced, by a river, with my mother?
How might they decide that my experience is false?
What revelation reaches so far as to invalidate such personal experience?
And how are we to recognize any such revelation?

[RAM]

The obsessive drive to convert people was a critical survival trait early on, obviously.

Whic only goes to prove that humans are stupid. If conversion is so important, and god is so powerful, then it would have already happened. Claim free will all you like, God is supposed to have designed humanity, and if a whole mess of humans hear "the good word" and say "nope" then that is a flaw in the programming. It is like blaming nails for not being sharp enough after you bought the cheapest possible moulds for your nail factory...

If "the good word" was so important, then it would have been spread faster. Whole generations went by just waiting for it to reach them. Whole people's lives passed with no chance at salvation, not because the message wasn't out, but because god apparently has no understanding of or preparation for distribution. I mean, entire regions' worth of souls going to waste because god couldn't be bother to so much as get a few bible-bashers lost in a cave only to emerge on the far side of the world? Or washed ashore in a strange land? I mean, the world has all this ocean, it meant that a whole mess of people didn't have the slightest hope of being "saved" for the better-part of two millennia, there are people who still haven't had any meaningful contact with it. God supposedly designed the world, all that isolating ocean included, and couldn't be bothered to so much as lift a finger even though apparently it is really important to spread this message out everywhere. Didn't even send a dream to cross the ocean or anything. A bunch of heathen vikings could figure it out, but god? The lazy liar just doesn't care about souls so long as it has enough to fill its belly in time for tea-time...

For brevity:
 The more important evangelism is to a religion, the more dependent it is upon that evangelism to be successful in order to demonstrate its own validity. If it reaches the point that membership is required for even the slightest measure of success, then it becomes necessary for everyone to have access to it in order to demonstrate that the subject of the religion actually cares about universal success. And given that "success" in this instance means avoiding an eternity of torment, or summary execution, at "god's" discretion, it is immediately obvious that the god in question is either feeble or malevolent, neither makes spending an eternity with the thing an attractive offer. At least an eternity of torment leaves me trapped with a self that I can tolerate.

[smjjames]

Like John it was rather obviously from Judaism.

A cult like any other.  What impact should they have on what I experienced, by a river, with my mother?
How might they decide that my experience is false?
What revelation reaches so far as to invalidate such personal experience?
And how are we to recognize any such revelation?

Dude, you're drunk, and you're walking straight into a landmine that I know you would normally avoid.

At least I think it's a potential landmine, modified by the fact that you're drunk.

[Rolan7]

But I'm simply asking questions!
The burden of proof is on anyone trying to promote a general creed.

As I would be, IF I were trying to promote faith in my local observed anomalies.
Which I am not.
Because I didn't record them.

It's personal faith, nothing more.

[smjjames]

I was just trying to keep you from doing something dumb by appearing to call Judaism a cult.

[Rolan7]

Judaism, including Islam and Christianity, has succeeded well enough to not be a cult.

It's a root, or a truth for many people.

And my belief in things which I've actually seen, is a cult.
That's how it is.  *shrug*

[TD1]

What were these anomalies again.

[Rolan7]

Things I observed, which I don't have to describe or prove.

I can simply say that you should observe the things around you, and look for miracles nearby.
And that's just as valid as any of the Abrahamic faiths which have no evidence at all.
They can barely support that Jesus even existed at all, much less that he was the person/god they claim him to be.

[smjjames]

Things I observed, which I don't have to describe or prove.

I can simply say that you should observe the things around you, and look for miracles nearby.
And that's just as valid as any of the Abrahamic faiths which have no evidence at all.
They can barely support that Jesus even existed at all, much less that he was the person/god they claim him to be.

Miracles of nature then? Like, for example, how mathematical constants repeat in nature all the time and there are elegant solutions in math that appear like organic things. Which is pretty awesome when you think about it.

Though you can believe whatever the heck you want.

[Rolan7]

Miracles of nature then? Like, for example, how mathematical constants repeat in nature all the time and there are elegant solutions in math that appear like organic things.

Though you can believe whatever the heck you want.

Yes, those might be evidence of some creation/design.
A divine watchmaker, perhaps.  Someone who believes in order or balance in all things.

Doesn't really lend to believing the jews deserved all that shit, but still, maybe?  Could be.

[redwallzyl]

Every scientist I have ever meet has straight up stated that science can not be used to comment on things such as the existence of god as they are out of the realm of the scientific method. I also know quite a few religious scientists of various kinds. So believe what you will and don't let people tell you that God doesn't exist because "science." I hate when people do that.

[Rolan7]

Every scientist I have ever meet has straight up stated that science can not be used to comment on things such as the existence of god as they are out of the realm of the scientific method. I also know quite a few religious scientists of various kinds. So believe what you will and don't let people tell you that God doesn't exist because "science." I hate when people do that.

It's fine to believe in a god of the gaps.
I believe in a multitude of fairies of the gaps.  I am not being sarcastic, my real-life experiences have supported my faith.

No scientist will ever tell you that science can disprove the things which defy definition.
My fairies, by definition, avoid analysis.
Jehovah et all, the Jewish god(s), doesn't really have such an out.  And yet, people believe in him in various ways.

[smjjames]

Every scientist I have ever meet has straight up stated that science can not be used to comment on things such as the existence of god as they are out of the realm of the scientific method. I also know quite a few religious scientists of various kinds. So believe what you will and don't let people tell you that God doesn't exist because "science." I hate when people do that.

It's fine to believe in a god of the gaps.
I believe in a multitude of fairies of the gaps.  I am not being sarcastic, my real-life experiences have supported my faith.

No scientist will ever tell you that science can disprove the things which defy definition.
My fairies, by definition, avoid analysis.

They avoid analysis by definition? How does that work, sounds more like you don't want to analyze them, which is fine if you just want to bask in the beauty of nature or something and not dwell on the 'why is it this way?'.