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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Egan_BW]

If the existence of mr. YHWH was proven, I'd have to find a way to destroy it, because both possible afterlives would be incredibly infinitely worse than death.

[Rolepgeek]

If the existence of mr. YHWH was proven, I'd have to find a way to destroy it, because both possible afterlives would be incredibly infinitely worse than death.

I disagree vehemently.

Also, if his existence was proven, 'I must destroy God' is kindof a non-starter. And Amperzand never specified YHWH, nor did s/he say that they would be exactly how these random books say they are. Think a bit farther outside the box, guys. What if Shiva and Brahman turned out to be real, and Hinduism was right all along?

[TD1]

What if the dinner you ate yesterday was the physical manifestation of your Lord God?

[Orange Wizard]

What if the dinner you ate yesterday was the physical manifestation of your Lord God?

The Catholics were right all along

[TD1]

What if the dinner you ate yesterday was the physical manifestation of your Lord God?

The Catholics were right all along

Ha. Sigtexting.

[Amperzand]

If the existence of mr. YHWH was proven, I'd have to find a way to destroy it, because both possible afterlives would be incredibly infinitely worse than death.

I disagree vehemently.

Also, if his existence was proven, 'I must destroy God' is kindof a non-starter. And Amperzand never specified YHWH, nor did s/he say that they would be exactly how these random books say they are. Think a bit farther outside the box, guys. What if Shiva and Brahman turned out to be real, and Hinduism was right all along?

Indeed I did not. The question was intentionally generalized, and largely meant to refer simply to the existence of any supernatural higher power whatsoever. That could include, say, destiny, Karma, or God-Emperor Einstein. Anything and everything.

A separate, but also interesting discussion is the actual proof or antiproof for any specific religion's tenets or relevant entities.

[Kot]

Considering the existence of "natural" evil (babies dying to ilnesses, volcanoes killing people, stuff like that), and the fact that he is certainly capable of creating the perfect world (Heaven, not to mention that souls there supposedly retain the free will, so basically all the evil people do is his fault anyway, since he is capable of stopping it and he doesn't) the God is certainly not really that good as Church(es) want us to belive. So, all things considered, I would be more than happy to blast Gods face off with nukes, for being such a dick.

Humanity Fuck Yeah.

[Graknorke]

God-Emperor Einstein

Make it God-Emperor Galileo and you have a deal. Guy had some serious bants.

Relevant because lots of it was just antagonising the Catholic Church while being on cheeki terms with the pope so he didn't get his shit smashed in.

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah the Pope actually supported Galileo until Galileo started bantering him because he had some Spanish in him and had to do what was unexpected

[Quartz_Mace]

Considering the existence of "natural" evil (babies dying to ilnesses, volcanoes killing people, stuff like that), and the fact that he is certainly capable of creating the perfect world (Heaven, not to mention that souls there supposedly retain the free will, so basically all the evil people do is his fault anyway, since he is capable of stopping it and he doesn't) the God is certainly not really that good as Church(es) want us to belive. So, all things considered, I would be more than happy to blast Gods face off with nukes, for being such a dick.

Humanity Fuck Yeah.

Okay, I'd like to present you with a challenge. Think about what being God is like. Imagine that there is nothing except you and infinite power. Now, create something perfect. Do you think that's possible? Have you done better? I'm not claiming that God is perfect, far from it. I simply think we are in no position to judge a divine being with infinitely more knowledge and experience than each of us, and if he has made mistakes, then quite honestly, why can't we forgive Him? Maybe he has made mistakes, but so have we, and many of us can forgive each other. Think about it, if he made you, without him you'd never have existed. You'd never have enjoyed anything, never had a single thought or experience. Why curse His name?

Edit: Also this is all hypothetical. God may or may not exist and may or may not be male/female/not applicable.

[Rolepgeek]

Considering the existence of "natural" evil (babies dying to ilnesses, volcanoes killing people, stuff like that), and the fact that he is certainly capable of creating the perfect world (Heaven, not to mention that souls there supposedly retain the free will, so basically all the evil people do is his fault anyway, since he is capable of stopping it and he doesn't) the God is certainly not really that good as Church(es) want us to belive. So, all things considered, I would be more than happy to blast Gods face off with nukes, for being such a dick.

Humanity Fuck Yeah.

Are you certain of that? I mean other than the whole, if you're certain he can create a perfect world, you should also be fairly certain he can smite you straight to eternal torture. Antagonising infinitely powerful entities is a bad idea, usually. Refusing to worship, sure, but actively annoying?

What's more, you're creating something of a conundrum here, without actually taking into consideration the metaphysical forces at play. If he doesn't give people free will, and they do evil, it's his fault since he predetermined what they would do. If he does give people free will, and they do evil, it's his fault because he let them. Bit of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't', to pardon the pun. From what I know, Heaven/happy afterlife isn't perfect, it's just better. If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it is yours.

Holy shit. That's a bit of a revelation/twist on it's head. Setting that temptation in the Garden of Eden was His 'letting us go'. The key to the cage and our own experiences. Our own lives, free will, knowledge. Yeah, He cast us out for it, but that's half the point. Otherwise we would've been stagnant, in the Garden forever. Now we can either stay away or return. Huh. Still don't believe it, but it casts it a bit better light when you think of it that way.

[Orange Wizard]

But muh predestination

[Rolepgeek]

But muh predestination

If predestination is a thing, God's a dick and no two ways about it.

[Descan]

What's more, you're creating something of a conundrum here, without actually taking into consideration the metaphysical forces at play. If he doesn't give people free will, and they do evil, it's his fault since he predetermined what they would do. If he does give people free will, and they do evil, it's his fault because he let them. Bit of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't', to pardon the pun. From what I know, Heaven/happy afterlife isn't perfect, it's just better. If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it is yours.

That's a pretty false dichotomy. He's damned either way because, either way, he's allowing evil. He could, you know, have people not do evil, especially in the situation of "doesn't give people free will," but even in the other situation, humans DO have tendencies. Like we have a tendency to shun the outgroup/strangers, or a tendency to not eat babies. He could change those to be less evil-tending.

So yes he's damned either way cuz there's still evil. It's not the free will that's the problem, it's the evil causing! V:

Also: The world doesn't have to be perfect for it to be a HELL of a lot (puns!) better than it is now. Case in point: Harlequin babies. Most of you know not to google that, but a world without such a disease would be marginally better than ours which does have them. Still not perfect, but better. Worms that lay eggs in your eyes or veins, putting people in areas of the world with vastly different opportunities for development, thereby indirectly causing genocide and slavery (Europe vs Australia vs the America vs Africa, a la Guns Germs and Steel), peanut allergies. All of these are further examples of the same principle.

A lot of shit that just doesn't need to be that, were he just to go "You know what, let's NOT have peanut allergies!" would be fixed with no impact on humans beyond preventing needless suffering.

[Orange Wizard]

But muh predestination

If predestination is a thing, God's a dick and no two ways about it.

But he's also God, so we're not really in a position to complain.