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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Orange Wizard]

Heh. He... el... Hel?

[Adragis]

Caramel for Angel of Sweetness confirmed.

[scrdest]

Mmhmm. Was morning star (also known as venus :V), then got corrupted over time from the... greek translation, iirc. It mostly just sounds fancy, really. Probably doesn't hurt it's fairly close to the angelic -el naming pattern -- fits with the fallen angel bit that's of questionable dubiousness.

Honestly, none of the appellations for the adversary are actual names. Critter's never given an actual name in the biblical texts. Satan's a translation corruption, lucifer's a translation corruption, the list more or less just goes on. It's vaguely amusing, really, given how much personality et al non-canonical sources and common interpretations and whatnot give the thing(s)...

It's not even a corruption. It's a straight up translation, it's just that the title is taken to be a single (supernatural) person. It translates from Latin to English as 'Lightbringer', by the logic that 'Morningstar' is the first star that heralds (i.e. brings about) the morning (i.e. light).

[Rolepgeek]

Satan's primary supporters in the Rebellion: Hell's Bels.

Also, I read something recently that I find hilarious and possibly blasphemous, but I'm not certain.

Jesus said that those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

Jesus was a carpenter.

He died by being nailed to a piece of wood.

[Frumple]

I'd call it more irreverent than blasphemous, that one. If you wanted blasphemous, use the same punchline, but note he's known for marrying a prostitute :V

[Orange Wizard]

Does anyone know where the idea of Mary Magdalene being a prostitute actually came from? It's certainly not in the Gospels, and I doubt any of the Catholic fanfics suggest it with her being a saint and all. Is it just Dan Brown to blame or something?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's just straight up confusion with the woman accused of adultery (and confusion of adultery with prostitution).

[Orange Wizard]

Well yeah, but someone must have popularised the idea for it to be so ingrained.

[Ghazkull]

Out of curiosity to those that read the Quran (is that the right spelling in english?)

Christian Cosmology (Cosmogony? I'm getting that stuff confused) has three types of angels as far as i know:

Standard Angels - aka those that stayed with god after the war in heaven.

Grigori (Fallen Angels?) - im not even sure where those guys are attestated. So far i've heard different versions: one that they left with Satan but didn't stay with him and one that they left before/after Satan and were subsequently expelled form heaven for having fun (the sexual kind) with humans and had children.

Fallen Angels - The Kind that left with Satan. Basically now demons.

now to my question: How is it handled in the Quran? I think iread something that that entire Djinn thing actually comes from there and that there are three different kind of demons, the Hellish Kind, the Djinns (which may or may not be good depending on situation) and a third kind i don't know.
Are these in any way related to angels like in Christian Cosmology/Mythology?
Generally how is the make up of Angels, Demons other Supernatural beings?

[Rolan7]

First off, seconding interesting in Ghazkull's question.  Divine servants or nonhuman races in general are very interesting to me.

Furthermore...  The most recent Oglaf has me wondering about fallible gods.

No offense to Christians meant, but the creed makes a lot more sense if God isn't *literally* all powerful.  Otherwise everything would be as he wished, yeah?
I mention Christians because they speak here most often (far behind atheists, sadly) and Christian doctrine *seems* to describe Jehovah as ALL-powerful.  But maybe some Christians don't believe that?

But I'd love any discussion on fallible gods.  External manipulators or creators who might have limits and who, with time and dedication, humanity technically might have a chance of surpassing.

[wierd]

My understaning is that it goes a bit like this:

God wants more than just an automaton that shouts "praise!" all the time. He seeks a willing mind that chooses to praise him instead.

Because of this need for his worshipers to have free minds, so that they can choose for themselves to worhip him, and thus have genuine reverence, he has to leave his hands off, unless things get so out of hand that this ultimate goal is imperiled. Under such circumstances, he intervenes-- sometimes quite coarsely.

As a consequence of this, things can and do go in directions that displease him. Usually he is quite patient with his process, but his patience is not infinite.

It is thus, not that god is "unable" to directly control everything, and thus make sure everything goes the way he wants it to, it is that doing that is counter to his own wishes, and would make no sense for him to do.  Instead, he tries to manouver the consequences of human rebellion to demonstrate why following his instructions is for humanity's own benefit, in the grander scheme of things.  Basically, he wants you to come to that conclusion, so that then you will worship him willingly.

As for the islamic version of celestial beings, I am afraid I dont know too much about that.

[sprinkled chariot]

But why perfect being would need worship, especially worship of imperfect beings, who sometimes worship Trump or Hitler. And why would he spend all his life convincing those beings to love him.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

But why perfect being would need worship, especially worship of imperfect beings, who sometimes worship Trump or Hitler. And why would he spend all his life convincing those beings to love him.

You shut your heathen mouth, He Who Fires The Pantywaists is the one true god!

[TempAcc]

Satan's primary supporters in the Rebellion: Hell's Bels.

Also, I read something recently that I find hilarious and possibly blasphemous, but I'm not certain.

Jesus said that those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

Jesus was a carpenter.

He died by being nailed to a piece of wood.

Some interpreters actualy say that the bits pointing out Jesus being a carpenter were actualy mistranslated, and that he was actualy a mason. As in, a stone mason, the kind that builds houses with his bare hands.  Meaning Jesus could've looked quite imposing, physically :v

Which would kind explain his ability to go all hulk smash on the market at the temple grounds, flipping tables arounds and etc, since those tables were supposedly huge and made of stone.

[Rolan7]

Sorry, I wasn't clear there at all...  I wasn't mainly trying to argue that Christianity must have a fallible god (that was meant as an aside).  I was more curious in what people think about the implications of a fallible god or gods.

Like if we were created by an advanced spacefaring race who left us a while ago.  Or the gods do live on another plane of existence, but it's one we can reach.  What are the implications if it turns out we outpace the gods and ever have them at our mercy?  Imagine the Greek pantheon I guess.  If we met Poseidon, would we have a duty to shoot him?  Try to coexist as equals?  Or give him/them tribute for our existence, even though it's a rough and often unfair existence?