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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 71 (27.7%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 114 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 684548 times)

Arx

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3390 on: November 11, 2015, 10:14:46 am »

My brother is a fucking bastard and I can attest that I don't love him.

That work, heh?  :-\

And every time I've had alcohol I haven't got drunk. Everyone who thinks they get drunk off alcohol is wrong. That work?
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Rolan7

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3391 on: November 11, 2015, 10:20:09 am »

@Dwarf1
Unless you're arguing that unconditional love doesn't exist *anywhere*, which I don't think you were... Though I'm not convinced that it does exist.

I kinda hate the pseudo-unconditional love for family members because it makes conflicts hurt more. I'd rather choose my relationships.
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3392 on: November 11, 2015, 10:24:26 am »

Getting drunk off alcohol isn't an absolute. You can drink a glass of alcohol and not get drunk, but applying that relativity to something which is supposedly there and unquantifiable seems illogical.

Unconditional love, by definition, is...unconditional.

But when there are examples of family rifts - mother against son, brother against brother, wife against husband - it shows how conditional it is.

As I said, you may love your wife, but if she does something horrendous (or even trivial like buying a puppy or something) and is utterly unrepentant, you're not going to love her for long.

Unconditional love depends upon unchanging personalities and unchanging perceptions of people. That's not something you're going to get in real life.

@Dwarf1
Unless you're arguing that unconditional love doesn't exist *anywhere*, which I don't think you were... Though I'm not convinced that it does exist.

I kinda hate the pseudo-unconditional love for family members because it makes conflicts hurt more. I'd rather choose my relationships.
I don't believe in unconditional love at all, and am dubious about love in general - I recognise people form emotional attachments, but there are some heavy meanings to "love" that I'm not sure can be applied or not. So that's the grey area - unconditional love is the extreme, though.
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TempAcc

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3393 on: November 11, 2015, 10:28:51 am »

And so we come to another common religious maxim: if you don't have true love, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to achieve it, and just because people don't love you, it doesn't mean you shouldn't love them. Even if such a thing does not exist, its something you should try and make it exist.

Not a statement of fact, of course, just my personal belief.
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TD1

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3394 on: November 11, 2015, 10:33:22 am »

Hear, hear to that. The world would be a better place with true love.
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Bohandas

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3395 on: November 11, 2015, 10:37:34 am »

So if I say ceremonious words to my dog, then I become "one flesh" with it?

Marriage in the church/bible isn't limited to the ritual, the ritual is just a small part of it. So, unless you're doing some stuff to your dog you really shouldn't be doing, then you aren't "one flesh" with it :v

No details pls.
So you define "one flesh" as sexual interaction, combined with marriage?

I can have sex with anyone, and marry them, and suddenly we're "one flesh?"

Were we one flesh, there would be some observable difference. Say one died in India, the other in America would know because a part of them just died. Instead, couples who are married frequently have arguments, get cabin fever, can be disillusioned, etc. Saying they're "one flesh" is romantic nonsense mixed with religion.

Not just sex either. Marriage is defined as a communion between a man and a woman in God's presence

So God likes to watch. That's interestibg.
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TempAcc

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3396 on: November 11, 2015, 10:47:33 am »

And probably participate, too. I mean, since God is omnipresent, chances are he's inside your ass touching your prostate.

Right now. :v
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Rose

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3397 on: November 11, 2015, 10:59:20 am »

My personal belief is that God exists, but each and every single religion on earth is completely wrong about Him.

And yes, God sees all and knows all.
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Frumple

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3398 on: November 11, 2015, 11:18:33 am »

Also, it is also possible that we as humans living on earth just cannot comprehend God.
Going by Biblical literalism, it's significantly more than possible. It's pretty much a definite.
While true, that's always struck me as one of the worst cop-outs religion in general tends to pull. I just woke up, so the words aren't quite coming right, but... "It can't be understood" is, just... not a point for, or something like that. It's functionally no different from saying, "It's entirely arbitrary" or "It's just bughumping insane". When you consider the ethics of belief, especially with regard to something as important as religion claims to be (the soul, afterlife, weighed in relation to the eternal consequences, etc.), choosing to believe in something you don't and (significantly worse) can't understand is, just... bad. Bad form, bad idea, the list just rolls on. Science and whatnot get away with it a bit because at least that stuff is trying fix the situation, but with religion it's always brought up as a sort of conversation stopper. "I can't, therefore you cannot claim I should and must accede my suppositions are unassailable." It also seems to be done with the intent that since total comprehension is impossible, lesser comprehension(s) are also meaningless -- that the overall nature of the entity is such that it overrides entirely the nature of its lesser actions. It's basically saying that because god is unknowable, its every action is incapable of being assessed and has no bearing on an evaluation of its actions (current, past, potential future, whatever).

From a human perspective that's just... abhorrent? Significantly unwise? We've seen that sort of belief in human history, many times over -- the king's actions are unknowable to the peasant, therefore the king's rape and murder of the peasantry should not be questioned. The general's intent is unknowable to the soldier, therefore the soldier should follow the order to massacre civilians without hesitation. It just goes on, and on, and on. Maybe it's even true, but that doesn't mean it's right for the soldiers and the peasantry to accept it as true, y'know?

---

S'also an implicit denial of the critter's omnipotence, heh -- it's saying that if god wanted to (and nevermind the implications that it wants mankind to live in ignorance of its nature, instead), it couldn't make humans living on earth comprehend it, if nothing else at least well enough for people to make appropriate decisions regarding the thing.
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miauw62

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3399 on: November 11, 2015, 11:32:07 am »

Unconditional love may be impossible, but that doesn't mean it's not an ideal worth pursuing.
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3400 on: November 11, 2015, 11:33:24 am »

Unconditional love may be impossible, but that doesn't mean it's not an ideal worth pursuing.
Yep:

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3401 on: November 11, 2015, 12:38:52 pm »

Question regarding the Trinity: So it's really three different people who work together (as a single God)? That's the impression I get from reading posts here, but I've also heard some very different things about it (i.e. it's just one person).
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3402 on: November 11, 2015, 12:41:30 pm »

Everything Frumple said.
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3403 on: November 11, 2015, 12:41:50 pm »

There is one God who exists as three persons. Each have their own roles in the world, the holy spirit submits to the son who submits to the father. All together, they are God.

It's okay if you don't get it all.
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Rolan7

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3404 on: November 11, 2015, 12:44:57 pm »

It was the subject of much debate and death, and I'm not even sure what explanation(s) won or how much it depends on denomination. Maybe st patrick can explain:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
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Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.
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