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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 71 (27.7%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 114 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 681321 times)

Vilanat

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2400 on: July 02, 2015, 06:08:32 pm »

Since Muhammad has done to his enemies exactly what the Islamic State is doing right now while on the other hand, Jesus never hurt nor preached to hurt anyone, I'd say any violence coming out of christianity is a distortion and every violent coming out of Islam is simply compliant imitation.

In fact, seeing how not all muslims are violent, i hold them non-violent muslims to a higher praise, since being non-violent after being raised in a non-violent religion is simply logical, but being non-violent after being educated in an utterly violent religion shows extreme strength of character.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2401 on: July 02, 2015, 06:10:12 pm »

Jesus killed a fig tree, put demons in a herd of livestock (which made them commit suicide) and he ran around flipping tables in that one jewish temple
Other than that he was, well, Jesus

scrdest

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2402 on: July 02, 2015, 06:38:31 pm »

It's not restricted to Islam either (see: Spanish Inquisition).
Shit.

I didn't expect that.
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Descan

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2403 on: July 02, 2015, 06:43:30 pm »

Quote
"Do not worry! If they knew the Quran they would not kill people" answered the Husband.
That part is also what makes it "If they were really Muslim, they'd agree with my interpretation!"/"ISIS aren't Muslim" rather than just "ISIS doesn't represent all Muslims."
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2404 on: July 02, 2015, 06:45:22 pm »

Quote
"Do not worry! If they knew the Quran they would not kill people" answered the Husband.
That part is also what makes it "If they were really Muslim, they'd agree with my interpretation!"/"ISIS aren't Muslim" rather than just "ISIS doesn't represent all Muslims."
In regards to this, which seems to me like the muslim equivalent of "and then an eagle flew in the window and shed a single tear" copypasta, I think this bit is saying that ISIS people don't read the Qu'ran so they wouldn't know if what someone was reciting was legit or not, only if they panicked

Meaning they can't practice what they preach because they never learned

Frumple

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2405 on: July 02, 2015, 07:07:24 pm »

The new testament marks the key difference between judaism and christianity. Its where Christianity becomes its own thing and God stops being treated as a militant god of the jews and more like an actualy benevolent god.

And on Islam, yea, I never bought the idea of Islam somehow being a religion of peace. The only reason Islam even exists is because of war (Islam is one of the only religions that was almost exclusively spread through war).
... if by "One of the only" you mean "like every major religion". Seriously, check your history -- every single major religion in existence spread primarily through conquest, coming on the back of an invader, or backed by very substantial degrees of force. Christianity did, hinduism did, buddhism did, freaking Jainism experienced one of its largest propagation points on the back of an expansionist government. Saying that Islam is particularly unusual or egregious in the extent it was spread by the sword strikes me as incredibly ignorant of human history.

As for the rest of this painfully standard and desultory anti-islam spiel, y'all are welcome to continue to say the vast goddamn majority of Muslim practitioners have no idea how to follow their own religion and are just one "proper" interpretation of the Qu'ran from running out and murdering everyone. About 1/3rd of the human population will continue to prove that bullshit as bullshit.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2406 on: July 02, 2015, 07:10:40 pm »

Historical practices which are still going on in areas of the world of certain persuasions

ggamer

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2407 on: July 02, 2015, 08:22:29 pm »

The new testament marks the key difference between judaism and christianity. Its where Christianity becomes its own thing and God stops being treated as a militant god of the jews and more like an actualy benevolent god.

And on Islam, yea, I never bought the idea of Islam somehow being a religion of peace. The only reason Islam even exists is because of war (Islam is one of the only religions that was almost exclusively spread through war).
... if by "One of the only" you mean "like every major religion". Seriously, check your history -- every single major religion in existence spread primarily through conquest, coming on the back of an invader, or backed by very substantial degrees of force. Christianity did, hinduism did, buddhism did, freaking Jainism experienced one of its largest propagation points on the back of an expansionist government. Saying that Islam is particularly unusual or egregious in the extent it was spread by the sword strikes me as incredibly ignorant of human history.

As for the rest of this painfully standard and desultory anti-islam spiel, y'all are welcome to continue to say the vast goddamn majority of Muslim practitioners have no idea how to follow their own religion and are just one "proper" interpretation of the Qu'ran from running out and murdering everyone. About 1/3rd of the human population will continue to prove that bullshit as bullshit.

haha silly frumple what do you mean indonesia exists no thanks islam is a religion of hatred gib it about ten years and europe will be islamope hurp hurp hurp

Loud Whispers

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2408 on: July 02, 2015, 08:25:44 pm »

islamope would make a good floor cleaner brand

TD1

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2409 on: July 02, 2015, 08:48:02 pm »

As for the rest of this painfully standard and desultory anti-islam spiel, y'all are welcome to continue to say the vast goddamn majority of Muslim practitioners have no idea how to follow their own religion and are just one "proper" interpretation of the Qu'ran from running out and murdering everyone. About 1/3rd of the human population will continue to prove that bullshit as bullshit.
Except for, you know, the Muslims in peaceful places and countries who still answer militant calls. Hell, even little girls go. They were the ones who saw the militant message and answered it. Yes, there are peaceful passages in the Quran. But these are heavily outnumbered by the violent ones. So a violent message isn't the only.way to view Islam. It is, however, one of the most viable.
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2410 on: July 02, 2015, 10:02:16 pm »

The new testament marks the key difference between judaism and christianity. Its where Christianity becomes its own thing and God stops being treated as a militant god of the jews and more like an actualy benevolent god.

And on Islam, yea, I never bought the idea of Islam somehow being a religion of peace. The only reason Islam even exists is because of war (Islam is one of the only religions that was almost exclusively spread through war).
... if by "One of the only" you mean "like every major religion". Seriously, check your history -- every single major religion in existence spread primarily through conquest, coming on the back of an invader, or backed by very substantial degrees of force. Christianity did, hinduism did, buddhism did, freaking Jainism experienced one of its largest propagation points on the back of an expansionist government. Saying that Islam is particularly unusual or egregious in the extent it was spread by the sword strikes me as incredibly ignorant of human history.

As for the rest of this painfully standard and desultory anti-islam spiel, y'all are welcome to continue to say the vast goddamn majority of Muslim practitioners have no idea how to follow their own religion and are just one "proper" interpretation of the Qu'ran from running out and murdering everyone. About 1/3rd of the human population will continue to prove that bullshit as bullshit.

haha silly frumple what do you mean indonesia exists no thanks islam is a religion of hatred gib it about ten years and europe will be islamope hurp hurp hurp

A certain indonesian christian girl I know would probably enjoy talking to you about how muslims have persecuted her family while they were in Indonesia, how they close non islamic businesses during holidays, the fact the great majority of terrorist cells in Indonesia are islamic, etc.

And never did I say other religions were not spread by the sword. Most were, even the so called peaceful ones like buddhism, however, islam is special since it was spread by violence by design. Holy war/jihad is a concept thats very much accepted and inherent to Islam, as it was spread through violent at its very root, in agressive moves that wiped out entire african and middle eastern cultures and even ethnic groups. This is why muslim terrorism is a reality even in relatively peaceful places.

Christiany was certainy spread with violence and coercion throughout history, but not at its core. Christ did tell his followers to acquire swords, but that they could survive, given they were persecuted by both jewish clerics and the Roman Empire. Christianity started being spread through large scale violence with the conversion of the Roman Empire, but before that it was spreading mostly due to having a popular message, as Roman historians like Tacitus like grudgingly point out at several points in history. Buddhism likewise had a peaceful and humanitarian start, which didn't stop it from later becoming the core cause of several wars in india, china, japan and the middle east.

Pretending Islam somehow is somehow similar to other religions because said religions were involved in violent conflicts at one point or another in history is misguided at the very least.
Keep in mind that Islam's violent startup isn't even a point of contention, in fact it is well documented by islamic scriptures, and proudly so.

We do, however, have to make a key distinction. Most islamic terrorist groups consist of sunni muslims. There are shia terrorists, yes, but the shia are very persecuted minority among muslims and have suffered from the violent militant tendencies of Islam as much as any other people.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 10:04:26 pm by TempAcc »
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Frumple

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2411 on: July 02, 2015, 10:54:54 pm »

Most were, even the so called peaceful ones like buddhism, however, islam is special since it was spread by violence by design. Holy war/jihad is a concept thats very much accepted and inherent to Islam, as it was spread through violent at its very root, in agressive moves that wiped out entire african and middle eastern cultures and even ethnic groups.
You're displaying an incredibly profound ignorance of the islamic basis for jihad, here. Even my own very cursory understanding of the concept can tell you what you're attributing the concept is boils down roughly to bupkis. Its basis for being used to justify wars of aggression is very much sketchy from a theological perspective, on top of other aspects. Jihad is not a concept that really tracks one to one to the western concept of holy war, even remotely. It's very much a nuanced thing, and doesn't really equate to simply being a theological acceptance of violence. The violence perpetrated by islamic nations over history would be considerably lesser if they actually stuck to the core of their tenants. Which, hey. They don't, just like everyone else.

It wiping out ethnic groups is pretty irrelevant, though -- that's also something most of the other major religions have indulged in. Christianity itself was a major player in destroying or near-destroying entire continents worth of ethnic groups in the Americas, on top of what they helped to manage in Europe and other areas. I'd hate to do a comparative study of genocide or ethnic cleansing headed by forces predominately of a single religion simply due to how goddamn depressing it would be, but it would not paint a particularly pretty picture, in the least.

As for the terrorism in fairly peaceful areas, well. I rather imagine if the middle east hadn't been quite so thoroughly shat upon, and wasn't continuing to be thoroughly shat upon, you'd see a considerably lesser amount of that, more in line with what you see in predominately christian (or whatever, really) countries (and hey, yes, that happens, just to offer one example -- there's very much nastier shit in parts of south america or africa, as well.). Go figure, when you have a massively destabilized area that's predominately of a particular religion (or any substantial ideology, really), the effects of that can have influence beyond that immediate area.
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Vilanat

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2412 on: July 02, 2015, 11:54:32 pm »

Love that whitewashing, as if straight from the islamic propaganda machine.

Jihad IS a holy war, exactly like in the "western concept". the concept of it being a spiritual inner struggle is a later adaptation, Jihad at its origin, the Jihad of Muhammad was definitely an armed struggle against enemies of Islam and its still is.
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Arx

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2413 on: July 03, 2015, 12:11:08 am »

Just popping in again before disappearing to say that this argument would be a lot more meaningful with more quoting and less 'the Qur'an says'.
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #2414 on: July 03, 2015, 01:27:08 am »

Just popping in again before disappearing to say that this argument would be a lot more meaningful with more quoting and less 'the Qur'an says'.
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