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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Game Over - Scum win  (Read 52723 times)

mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #180 on: January 27, 2015, 09:55:22 pm »

Quote
You get cookies and town cred if you can go back, pick it out, and tell us what it is. Hector13 can be in on it, too.
This smells like a trap, but I'll play.

I asked hector what he thought about the interaction between you and mastah. This was becauseI was running out of questions, and needed something new.

He answers and comes back at me with the same question. I am assuming this is what you are reading as buddying.

I give him my answer, and he comes back and complements me on a well thought out post. This probably helped cement your convictions of us buddying.

He then ask's what I thought about the rest of the players. I flagged him as nuetral. This is the only thing that I did that might be construed as buddying. The rest hector did. When I flagged him as nuetral, I did so legitimately.

If this isnt what your thinking of, then I have no idea.
...Well, clearly what's going on here is that Hector is scum, trying to buddy you so as to get you killed in the event that he dies. Scripten is probably in on it, knowing that if he kills you, and you turn up as town, then "whoops! Guess it wasn't buddying after all." and he can forget the whole case on Hector.

Which would mean that Hector and Scripten are scumbuddies, who are attempting a highly unusual method of buddying town members, then having the other member call it out to get them lynched.

*Reads back over more of the thread*

Actually, it goes deeper! Scripten's arguing with me (over what's really a matter of playstyle, and isn't overly indicative of alignment in and of itself) is a clever attempt to appear to be distancing from me, which is basically reverse buddying. I noticed Hector mention it a little while back, along with other people.

It's genius, by acting scummy, and pinning it on the town, they can get away with developing their own incriminating evidence. They don't have to go hunting for ammo, because they're farming it themselves!

...No, I am not drunk, before anyone asks.

Slap a slam-tacular vote on that there Scripten.
Would you care to REFUTE this?
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Might as well chalk it up to Pathos.
As this point we might as well invoke interpretive dance and call it a day.
The Derail Thread

flabort

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Signups
« Reply #181 on: January 27, 2015, 10:15:02 pm »

Votecount
Comrade Shamrock: {0}
Dani: Peradon {1}
hector13: {0}
mastahcheese: Comrade Shamrock {1}
Nerjin: {0}
origamiscienceguy: hector13 {1}
Peradon: Scripten, Nerjin {2}
Scripten: mastahcheese  {1}
Zormod: {0}
Not voting:  oragamiscienceguy, Zormod, Dani

Day will end Wednesday, January 28th, 8:00 PM SMT (GMT-7)
That's about in about 24 hours
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #182 on: January 27, 2015, 10:16:46 pm »

Mastahcheese, that is a very plausible observation. At least the part about scripten. Hector and Scripten seems a bit far-fetched though.

Vote Scripten
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Nerjin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #183 on: January 27, 2015, 10:25:09 pm »

That's a nice conspiracy theory. It'd be a shame if something happened to it...

Quote
[[Peradon's answer isn't relevant to my post so I edited it out.]]
...Well, clearly what's going on here is that Hector is scum, trying to buddy you so as to get you killed in the event that he dies. Scripten is probably in on it, knowing that if he kills you, and you turn up as town, then "whoops! Guess it wasn't buddying after all." and he can forget the whole case on Hector.

1. How do you know Hector is scum? He might be acting scummy but that proves nothing.

2. Your case on Scripten comes right the fuck out of nowhere. You have no evidence other than "A is true therefore Pineapples are out to rape our jobs and take out women."

3. Most people are wrong day 1. It happens. What you're doing is called being insane.

Quote
Which would mean that Hector and Scripten are scumbuddies, who are attempting a highly unusual method of buddying town members, then having the other member call it out to get them lynched.

This statement is based on facts that haven't been confirmed.

Quote
Actually, it goes deeper! Scripten's arguing with me (over what's really a matter of playstyle, and isn't overly indicative of alignment in and of itself) is a clever attempt to appear to be distancing from me, which is basically reverse buddying. I noticed Hector mention it a little while back, along with other people.

Reverse buddying is called Distancing. No special term. You've yet to prove Scripten or Hector are scum and are just rambling at this point. You mention Hector said something. Cite your sources. Scripten is here to teach you how to play, by the way, so him arguing with you over playstyle is perfectly fine.

Quote
It's genius, by acting scummy, and pinning it on the town, they can get away with developing their own incriminating evidence. They don't have to go hunting for ammo, because they're farming it themselves!

No... None of this part make sense. Please explain.

Quote
...No, I am not drunk, before anyone asks.

Slap a slam-tacular vote on that there Scripten.
Would you care to REFUTE this?

You aren't drunk you're either 1. Being an idiot or 2. Fucking around. Neither of which bodes well for you. This is, by far, the most scummy non-starter of a conversation I have every seen. Mastahcheese either you are terrible scum or terrible town and, quite frankly, I do not want to deal with a month of your drunken ramblings either way.

Oh, and don't claim this was all a joke. You put your vote on it with less than 24 hours left in the day.




Mastahcheese, that is a very plausible observation. At least the part about scripten. Hector and Scripten seems a bit far-fetched though.

Vote Scripten

Plausible? Yes. Likely? No. Don't trust the ravings of madmen.
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Nerjin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #184 on: January 27, 2015, 10:25:54 pm »

Well that was a mistake of quote tags... Whoops. Anyways, I voted Mastahcheese during that.

Remember children, hit the Preview button.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #185 on: January 27, 2015, 10:35:57 pm »

...I think what you're forgetting is the part where the accused person reads what was written, and responds to it.  ::)

No, I won't say "it was joek", but I think it's fairly obvious that it's designed to draw a reaction from someone.
Which has now been ruined, thank you for that. Now I can only get half the reaction I was hoping for, and that half is the part where they calm down, and go over everything mathematically. Which is exactly the half I wasn't looking for.

I'll extend, anyway, though. Since at the very least, people may be inclined to talk now.
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Might as well chalk it up to Pathos.
As this point we might as well invoke interpretive dance and call it a day.
The Derail Thread

Nerjin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #186 on: January 27, 2015, 10:38:56 pm »

I am not forgetting it. You presented an unbelievably failed argument. It won't draw a reaction from an IC.

Such flimsy logic won't cause an experienced player to jump the gun. ESPECIALLY not day 1.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #187 on: January 27, 2015, 10:40:58 pm »

I am not forgetting it. You presented an unbelievably failed argument. It won't draw a reaction from an IC.

Such flimsy logic won't cause an experienced player to jump the gun. ESPECIALLY not day 1.
In your opinion.
But now we'll never know.

If it's such an utterly failed argument, then, what's that say of the person who actually halfway agreed with the blatant bullshit?
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Oh look, I have a steam account.
Might as well chalk it up to Pathos.
As this point we might as well invoke interpretive dance and call it a day.
The Derail Thread

Nerjin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #188 on: January 27, 2015, 10:45:56 pm »

Nothing positive I assure you. But you trotted it out and voted with it. Obviously you believed in what you were saying enough to risk this sort of reaction. Actions have consequence. Specifically: You are now trying to deflect my attentions. But I'll humor you and talk about Origami.

His last few posts have been rather lackluster. He simply agrees with other people trying to stay under the radar. In fact, reading back, I can't find any point in which he took a strong stance on anything. He is coasting and that makes him a very close second on my radar. But for now, my eyes are on you.
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Scripten

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #189 on: January 27, 2015, 10:47:54 pm »

Peradon:

Are you saying that it is wrong to question someone after they vote for you? I didnt like the way you worded your post, so I called you out on it. It sounded like you were setting mastah up to be lynched, after you got me lynched. I found it suspect, so I said as much. What you were reading as an OMGUS, was a real concern, not just an attempt to get you off my back.

Nah, it's fine to question votes on you and your concerns about my wording aren't scummy. My problem was with the way you presented yourself as a threat, which was posturing and doesn't actually make sense. Scum don't need lynches to eliminate threats. Any mislynch is a good mislynch for them. They have the night kill.

I asked hector what he thought about the interaction between you and mastah. This was becauseI was running out of questions, and needed something new.

He answers and comes back at me with the same question. I am assuming this is what you are reading as buddying.

Not quite. It's more the tone after the questions are answered. It's all very amicable and feels fake, like I said.

I give him my answer, and he comes back and complements me on a well thought out post. This probably helped cement your convictions of us buddying.

He then ask's what I thought about the rest of the players. I flagged him as nuetral. This is the only thing that I did that might be construed as buddying. The rest hector did. When I flagged him as nuetral, I did so legitimately.

Actually, it was not the compliments that bothered me so much as the neutrality. Scum buddy town, hoping to ingratiate themselves with the town players. However, sometimes, scum will push their scumbuddies as being town, but to avoid being associated with them, they will distance from one another. Unlike what mastahcheese presents, buddying isn't just attacking someone to look like you are on separate teams. Rather, it is more often a lack of ANY strong links between players. It's tough to look for something that is decidedly not there, after all.

Mastahcheese:

Wow... That's a pretty deep rabbit hole. At least my night isn't going to be boring, I guess?

...Well, clearly what's going on here is that Hector is scum, trying to buddy you so as to get you killed in the event that he dies. Scripten is probably in on it, knowing that if he kills you, and you turn up as town, then "whoops! Guess it wasn't buddying after all." and he can forget the whole case on Hector.

Or I think that they are the scumteam since they haven't done anything but work toward making each other look town and then say "Oh, I'm uh... neutral about him." Occam's razor and all that.

Occam's razor is a principle wherein the simplest answer is usually the most correct. It basically says that, when there are several competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions is more likely to yield a direction that aims toward the correct result. This is useful in mafia, as the scumteam will often try to complicate things by choosing to NK players who give little information on their flip. Occam's razor kills WIFOM a lot of the time, too.

Which would mean that Hector and Scripten are scumbuddies, who are attempting a highly unusual method of buddying town members, then having the other member call it out to get them lynched.

This strategy isn't actually all that uncommon and is one of the most common uses of buddying. That being said, it's not exactly a good early game strategy, since buddying takes most of the game to actually kick in, even with newer players. (Newbies are often actually more paranoid than veterans, who are capable of forming townreads with some amount of success.)

I'm also waggling my finger at you with some severity for making associative reads before a flip. Trying to prove that a player is scum because another player is scum only work if you know the second player is scum. Otherwise, you're operating fallaciously.

Actually, it goes deeper! Scripten's arguing with me (over what's really a matter of playstyle, and isn't overly indicative of alignment in and of itself) is a clever attempt to appear to be distancing from me, which is basically reverse buddying. I noticed Hector mention it a little while back, along with other people.

Actually, the reasons I voted you were separate from my debate with you about voting as town. Again, conspiracy theories are not particularly useful in mafia.

It's genius, by acting scummy, and pinning it on the town, they can get away with developing their own incriminating evidence. They don't have to go hunting for ammo, because they're farming it themselves!

...No, I am not drunk, before anyone asks.

Slap a slam-tacular vote on that there Scripten.
Would you care to REFUTE this?

P-Edit: Nerjin's points are also good here.

AAAAAAND wow. Here we go:

If it's such an utterly failed argument, then, what's that say of the person who actually halfway agreed with the blatant bullshit?

It really seems like any lynch is good for you, mastahcheese. Do you see what I said about people who would like just about any lynch to happen above?
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Scripten

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #190 on: January 27, 2015, 10:50:09 pm »

Voting to extend. I'm not ready for us to have the day end without talking about this.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #191 on: January 27, 2015, 10:54:51 pm »

Well, then you've answered my question.

I'd like to refute you calling it "deflecting", but frankly, I suppose it does look that way.
In my mind, I'm saying "Yes, it's crazy. That's the point." and I fail to see the use in continuing to go on with it, so for me, I'm done with that.

But if I may be so bold as to deflect further: Could we obtain some reads, now that you're here? What are your views on people viewing you as somewhat scummy by your lack of a presence?

To put it back on track, is there any other queries you have of me on my post?

If it's such an utterly failed argument, then, what's that say of the person who actually halfway agreed with the blatant bullshit?
It really seems like any lynch is good for you, mastahcheese. Do you see what I said about people who would like just about any lynch to happen above?
I didn't say I wanted to lynch him, did I?
If I did, I would have said
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And attacked him for agreeing with such blatant bull. But instead, I wanted your answer, and wasn't going to settle for someone else's.
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The Derail Thread

Nerjin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #192 on: January 27, 2015, 11:05:19 pm »

No matter what: When you vote somebody after the RVS phase you are voting them because you want them lynched.
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Scripten

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #193 on: January 27, 2015, 11:31:48 pm »

I didn't say I wanted to lynch him, did I?
If I did, I would have said
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And attacked him for agreeing with such blatant bull. But instead, I wanted your answer, and wasn't going to settle for someone else's.

What?

You pushed someone ELSE to lynch OSG instead of starting the wagon yourself. That's so blatantly scum 101 that I'm amazed you're not getting as far away from that post as you can.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #194 on: January 27, 2015, 11:50:21 pm »

I didn't say I wanted to lynch him, did I?
If I did, I would have said
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And attacked him for agreeing with such blatant bull. But instead, I wanted your answer, and wasn't going to settle for someone else's.

What?

You pushed someone ELSE to lynch OSG instead of starting the wagon yourself. That's so blatantly scum 101 that I'm amazed you're not getting as far away from that post as you can.
That
What?
No, I'm saying I could have, but that I didn't, because I'm going after you, if you even read what I typed.

I didn't push him to lynch, I merely made a comment. And now you're trying to twist every word I say to make me sound as scummy as possible (Which is exactly what you should do as scum. I can easily see any scum literally salivating over seeing my post, which is the whole point.)
I really hope people look back on how you're acting, and how far you try to twist things.
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Might as well chalk it up to Pathos.
As this point we might as well invoke interpretive dance and call it a day.
The Derail Thread
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