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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Game Over - Scum win  (Read 53154 times)

Peradon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2015, 12:01:42 am »

I would use this to evaluate what your opinion on a certain player would be. I expect you have had experiance with some of these other players, so your oppinion of them would be valued. For example, player 1 is a very good mafia player, thus investigating him would be best done earlier.
Alright, lemme ask a counter question to this.

Is it better to inspect those that you suspect to be scum, or those that you feel would be more dangerous, if they are scum?
Hmm. Good point. I guess the suspects are more... suspect, so they would be the natural choice...

Dani, you seemed to sidestep those questions. Any reason why?
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Zormod

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2015, 12:06:54 am »

Dani/Zormod/Peradon/origamiscienceguy: What do you expect to enjoy the most out of this game?
Analyzing every action and reaction, and using the knowledge to (hopefully) achieve my wincon.
Everyone, How well do you expect this game to go, and for what team?

What would I do for a Klondike bar? I'd stand on one foot.
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Peradon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2015, 12:09:11 am »

Everyone, How well do you expect this game to go, and for what team?
Really, I have no idea...I think it may be too early at this point.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2015, 12:21:52 am »

Dani/Zormod/Peradon/origamiscienceguy: What do you expect to enjoy the most out of this game?
Analyzing every action and reaction, and using the knowledge to (hopefully) achieve my wincon.
And what wincon would that be?

Everyone, How well do you expect this game to go, and for what team?
Typically, scum tends to have a higher win rate in BMs than normal, due to the lack of scum-hunting experience, but that's to be expected.
I hope this game goes well. I won't say "expect" because once you expect something, something unexpected will happen.
Now tie those two sentences together.
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Might as well chalk it up to Pathos.
As this point we might as well invoke interpretive dance and call it a day.
The Derail Thread

Dani

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2015, 12:25:23 am »

Dani, do you prefer to be the informed minority, or the uninformed majority?
I would be the man troll who dares to slay gods tricky little other things.
That doesn't answer the question.

Dani If you were given the choice of having a role, but being town, and not having a role, but being mafia, what would you choose?
Ah. I'd rather not have a role.
So you'd prefer to be Mafia, is what you're saying?
Or did you read the question?
Well, laying it out clearly, I meant I'd rather be the uninformed hunting the informed, but I'd rather not have a role, even if it meant becoming the mafia. Does that make any sense?
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Dani

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2015, 12:30:57 am »

I would use this to evaluate what your opinion on a certain player would be. I expect you have had experiance with some of these other players, so your oppinion of them would be valued. For example, player 1 is a very good mafia player, thus investigating him would be best done earlier.
Alright, lemme ask a counter question to this.

Is it better to inspect those that you suspect to be scum, or those that you feel would be more dangerous, if they are scum?
Hmm. Good point. I guess the suspects are more... suspect, so they would be the natural choice...

Dani, you seemed to sidestep those questions. Any reason why?
A skilled player who is confirmed town is more useful than a single lynch target that you'd have to convince the town about.

Sidestep? If I remember correctly, that's called a loaded question. I'm sure I didn't sidestep the questions.
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Peradon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2015, 12:34:34 am »

Well, laying it out clearly, I meant I'd rather be the uninformed hunting the informed, but I'd rather not have a role, even if it meant becoming the mafia. Does that make any sense?
I see. Any reason why you were vague in your first answer?
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Dani

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2015, 12:40:03 am »

Everyone, How well do you expect this game to go, and for what team?
How confident am I in town's chance of winning? I don't know who else is on the team, and who the mafia are.

PPE:
I see. Any reason why you were vague in your first answer?
Okay, it was vague. I felt like being poetic, or I felt like giving a direct answer would be dull, and thought that people would understand anyway. (I mean there are two choices, uninformed or informed, then you have the man and the god. I thought my metaphor was reasonable.)
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Peradon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2015, 12:53:47 am »

Quote
A skilled player who is confirmed town is more useful than a single lynch target that you'd have to convince the town about.

Sidestep? If I remember correctly, that's called a loaded question. I'm sure I didn't sidestep the questions.
How is asking why you avoided the question a loaded question? It seems like a legitimate question to me...
Quote
Okay, it was vague. I felt like being poetic, or I felt like giving a direct answer would be dull, and thought that people would understand anyway. (I mean there are two choices, uninformed or informed, then you have the man and the god. I thought my metaphor was reasonable.)
Giving a direct answer would certianly be better for town. It would make it much easier to analize your answers to decide whether you are town or not. Unless you were just trying to get the ball rolling, which, if so, you certainly succeeded....

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Zormod

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2015, 01:06:49 am »

And what wincon would that be?
This game, it would be cook the something else's at any cost.

I can't think of a question right now, goodnight.
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Scripten

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2015, 01:34:54 am »

IC Wall of text incoming. Newer players, please make sure to read this and ask any questions you happen to have. I'm here to help!

Hi all.

I'll be your friendly neighborhood IC for this game. When you see my text in maroon and italicized, you may rest assured that I am not lying to you and that I am, to the best of my ability, giving you genuine advice. As Mafia has its roots in social gaming, with healthy dashes of individual psychology, keep in mind that you can and occasionally should discount my advice depending on the circumstances. I have never met two people who play Mafia in exactly the same way, though you will often find players falling into various recurrent tropes (sometimes referred to as "tells") that can give you hints to their alignment.

That being said, I'll try to give advice whenever something of note appears. I would also recommend taking a look at mafia theory articles on the Mafiascum wiki. Many of them are outdated and, due to the way the game shifts in different environments, may not always be applicable in every situation. Still, they have been immensely useful to me and I hope they will serve you as well.

The most important thing to note is that you are playing to figure out other players' alignments. You aren't just trying to out-argue them, for if that were the case, the same players would always win as town or mafia. It is useful to be paranoid, but it is even more useful to find people you can trust. Scumhunting, the term for using various methods to capture mafia (scum), is the main aim of the game for town. This is in contrast to the mafia, who are expected to be scumhunting, but, because they know who are town and who are mafia, they have to fabricate their cases. The intricacies that allow a person to distinguish this is the gist of the game. One of my favorite adages which, to my knowledge, is not quite outdated yet, is that most occasions involving tunneling (a sort of single-minded, deep, but not especially broad questioning of another player) are generally between two town players during early parts of the game. A very successful scum tactic, especially among newbie games, is to egg on an argument without investing much in it, and when the player who loses is lynched, to push a wagon the next day on the person who was tunneling them. Keep an eye out for this, but remember, scum are also reading this and will most likely try to turn this technique to their advantage.

Now, with that initial bit of advice out of the way, let's move onto the current situation. Right now we are in a low-information stage of the game called RVS/RQS (respectively, random voting stage or random questioning stage) which is an early part of the game that gets things rolling. Note that I said "low-information." This is important because our two teams have different motivations. Scum want to keep town in the dark, because an ignorant town is a dead town, while town should try to get as much information as possible. Keep an eye on players who don't seem to understand the game state and try to see the difference between them and players who seem to understand the game state and are trying to keep it in low-information stages. The latter are more likely to be scum. This also has implications if you are town. Most directly, it means that it is a pro-town move to comment on events regarding the flow of the game as well as things you see affecting the lines of questioning people are drawing during RQS. The more you concentrate on making the game actually about the game, the faster we exit RQS and the more effectively we will be able to scumhunt.

More to come as we play! Good luck everyone.


Quote
A skilled player who is confirmed town is more useful than a single lynch target that you'd have to convince the town about.

Sidestep? If I remember correctly, that's called a loaded question. I'm sure I didn't sidestep the questions.
How is asking why you avoided the question a loaded question? It seems like a legitimate question to me...
Quote
Okay, it was vague. I felt like being poetic, or I felt like giving a direct answer would be dull, and thought that people would understand anyway. (I mean there are two choices, uninformed or informed, then you have the man and the god. I thought my metaphor was reasonable.)
Giving a direct answer would certianly be better for town. It would make it much easier to analize your answers to decide whether you are town or not. Unless you were just trying to get the ball rolling, which, if so, you certainly succeeded....

Be careful with lines of scumhunting like this. It's good to make a push on other players, but tunneling is an anti-town action. (Tunneling is when a player pushes on another player, ignoring the rest of the playerbase. Oftentimes tunneling is town versus town, leading to at least one, and possibly more mislynches. A good rule of thumb is to gauge the seriousness and depth of a player's response by the amount of game content in the thread and the relevance of the question to said content. This is why we want to get out of the RQS/RVS phase as fast as possible, since scum can answer general questions until the cows come home, but the motivations behind their posts regarding game content will be colored by their roles and the knowledge they have.
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Scripten

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Signups
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2015, 01:47:27 am »

Mastahcheese:

Scripten: How many trolls do you intend to kill?

None, ideally. We're looking for the something elses in the group. Does your role PM tell you to kill trolls, Mastahcheese?

That doesn't answer the question.

-snip-

So you'd prefer to be Mafia, is what you're saying?
Or did you read the question?

This post reeks of pedantry. Town can be pedantic, but it's sub-optimal. Scum are more likely to play toward pedantry because it stands in for legitimate scumhunting and helps them appear townie. I don't think you're sub-optimal town.

Is it better to inspect those that you suspect to be scum, or those that you feel would be more dangerous, if they are scum?

Are you worried the cop will inspect you because of your experience and subsequent danger to the town?

Origamiscienceguy:

I expect i'll particularly enjoy seeing the different peoples' detective styles emerge from day 2 onward.

From this post onward, you've expressed an opinion that Day 1 is going to be a crapshoot. Do you think you will benefit from heightened emotions and shot-in-the-dark scumhunting?
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Peradon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2015, 02:24:29 am »

Hmm. I suppose I should question other people....

Very well, here goes:

....Actually, I dont really have anything not pointed to Dani.... I guess more random questions are in order!

Scripten: Based on previous experiance with BM's, how do you expect this game to swing? What do you expect out of the more experianced players?

mastahcheese: Who, in your experiance, do you think the most dangerous player here is, if he were mafia?

Zormod: Which role, of the ones possible in this game, sounds the most usefull, and why?

Bonus Question: Round Two! Who is John Galt?

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Dani

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Day 1: A thin soup
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2015, 03:41:34 am »

I can't think of a question right now, goodnight.
...? I don't see any people asking you for questions. Is there something I missed?

How is asking why you avoided the question a loaded question? It seems like a legitimate question to me...
Quote
Dani, you seemed to sidestep those questions. Any reason why?
It makes an unreasonable assumption, then asks a question based in that assumption.
Someone told me that town play is about nitpicking at players until something tangible manifests. I guess that means this instance of your behavior is excusable.

When you see my text in maroon and italicized,
Scripten, you might want to update your stock IC text.
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Comrade Shamrock

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LII: A damp troll hole - Signups
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2015, 07:24:38 am »

mastahcheese:
Comrade Shamrock:  Is it better to ask questions to everyone at once, or to focus on a small amount?
mastahcheese I'm shocked I thought you would know the answer to this question already.  ;D

Not everyone but a wide spread is good until you narrow the field. But even if you think you have the scum there is no reason to stop questioning the wider group just in case.

Why'd you ask for Zormod's wincon this early? Seems like you're trying to get some valuable info for a claim later.

Zormod:
[Everyone, How well do you expect this game to go, and for what team?

I expect blood, tears, several cooked things and hopefully pull a town win. But being the pessimist I'd say I'm going to be blindsided.

One question? You'll probably find your feet when we get out of RVS.

Nerjin:
Welcome back, hope you enjoy this game more than your last with me.

How much significance do you think being an IC will weigh in on factors regarding night kills and lynches?

Scripten:
If you were the cop would you prefer to have a jailor who blocked you two nights running or no jailor at all? Assume mafia targeted you the first night.
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