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[Tiruin]

PFP

UXLZ, what are your actual reasons for voting for Tiruin? I'm finding it difficult for filter it out from all the tsundere going on between you.

This, UXLZ.

Also, since people kept calling me a tsundere I felt like I had to, y'know.

Social pressure looks like it makes you identify towards what others say rather than who you know you are. Huh.
...Very, very intriguing.

There was also the small chance it would cause a slip-up or something but honestly that was never that likely.

...Brilliant. I can see how this can be a possibility to be reasonable, though. But for posterity: It won't ever work with me.
I'm ok with the names, but the abrasiveness is really off par. It's like Jim Groovester--except he knows how to be snarky and limit it in a way that won't be off par.

ZU and Tiruin are fairly close but ZU is currently ahead.

Tiruin    - Heavy leaning scum.
ZU        - Leaning scum.

Err...
I think you mixed up your...ordinal relativity there. That, or you should've formatted the spoiler above the list--and indicated that its something previous.
Because its a bit hard to follow given this.
*looks at spoiler for reasons*

Tiruin: Heavy active lurking D1/2

OH COME ON.
After EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED, you STILL somehow find it a REASONABLE idea to even make that some kind of basis?!
Man...that's real low. -_-

incredibly passive play, lack of suspects (she seems to be null or town on everyone in the game,

...So other than what I see as a lazy interpretation, how come you haven't ever questioned me or quoted and indicated...any significant inquest on my acts.
Have you bothered to ask why I've been doing what I've been doing? Not really.
Have you checked why my suspect list is like so? Not really.
Compared to DA where he puts effort into understanding me--it isn't evident in how you see things here.
...Because for some reason, you're still going on the unrefutable argument of 'OOOOOOO ACTIVE LURKING' rather than see my defense IRL talking about technical difficulties.
That'd be real low for you as scum; you did acknowledge that earlier, but here?

...Until now, which somehow seems to be a conclusive deliverance until after voting ZU on...
Your bit of OMGUS.
Which brings up one bit back there!

(it contained replies to Tiruin and ZU, but I guess they weren't too major.)

So what does this tell? You think something that was said in the first draft, which doesn't exist in the final post now, aren't 'too major'?

I'm heavily questioning your credibility of scumhunting here. One bit is your note on ZU. I could see reasoning in your vote on him, but it seems invariably discontinued to somehow still end in the conclusion of OMGUS.
These usually tell a lack of reads or a lack of substance into the effort one puts into their votes and in interacting with others--why is there a lacking directness of all this, and instead that label below?

ZU: (Apparent, to me at least) OMGUSing of Scripten/Myself, D1 actions, D2 actions, weird tone, scummy slot, N4 actions (until I find where he said he'd be blocking Cheeetar at least). Actually, I don't really have many, come to think of it. I may have just been over reacting to the OMGUS or something... Hmm... Updated the readings list above, originally ZU was 'Heavy leaning scum.' Still have him as leaning scum, because for some reason I can't seem to shake the feeling that there's something wrong with him.

Even the person she's voting for at the moment she doesn't seem to actually think is scum or be paying much attention to (she's defending herself and not really doing anything towards them). Lack of reasons. Overall tone of posts (highly obfuscating information as well as her intentions.

Ooooo, very impactful note there.
Got proof? It's strange that you can come up with such high allegations, and yet lack the quote which would deliver the hammer-blow to make them tangible.
And did you note the tone of 'that person's' allegations towards me being solely out of speculation and guesswork?
Then forming a whole team out of it without bothering to ask on why I or DA even made such a work towards that?
Look at this from another viewpoint--that person is DA'S ASSOCIATE IN HIS DECISION OF HIS NIGHT ACTION, and SOMEHOW he can still pair DA up with me because of what we both claimed today; all without asking towards what in the world happened.
Because it seems that speculation can come up with an incredibly conclusive detail of who the scum are, given my action. I mean really--not even the simple question of asking why I did what I did, ever came up by him. And you, for that matter--though for some reason, you're not putting 'dubious night activity' as a reason on why you think I'm scum.

Detail your thoughts on my night action, UXLZ.

However, this last reason may be a fault with me rather than her.)

...This doesn't help muchwhen you're lacking detail on why its reasonable here.

NQT's analysis (though outdated) places her as the most certain to be scum, as far as I can tell the only people she's pushed on have been people who've pushed on her.

...And NQT's analysis has credence here because?
He OR you have not addressed my corrections towards his analysis, given how you seem to be buying in towards his method of scumhunting, and somehow lacking your own (as said before, its like you're doing secondary work, using his primary effort).

Next, the last part isn't that stable. I have pushed on many, many people--and it seems that you're taking the idea of my VOTE PLACEMENT as the people 'I've pushed on' to be the only thing that matters (or the thing that matters more).
This is why I said information about how my playstyle is earlier in this game. I am under the expectation that people would be at least accurate in judging my D1/2 by that manner, because anything otherwise is undefendable due to it being their opinion.
I mean really. Try defending against, not an accusation, but an allegation that you've been active lurking especially when you did state your reason on why you've been acting that way for 2 whole in-game days. I did note a very pertinent note early-in-game.
Somehow, for someone who can easily judge my efforts in D1/D2 with a really low level of analysis, can miss that.

Tell me, are you really and primarily listening to NQT, or are you judging by a chart he gives? If the former was done, NQT would at least be formal enough to mention his viewpoint on my activity, as seen in the PM below.

Another thing: next time you post in the thread, don't mention your bad internet. Just say why you're voting Scripten. It'll take the same amount of key-presses and it will make people want to kill you a lot less. I sympathise that your connection is awful, but people think that if you have good enough connection to post excuses then you have good enough connection to post content.

Note: She may have unvoted and is currently not voting for someone (I may have seen a line earlier implying that but I'm not sure). However, in that case it's even worse than not pushing her voting target, not having someone to vote for on D4 is a pretty grievous sin.

...You did notice that I'm voting Persus, who hasn't replied yet, right?
This kind of allegation really brings up the idea that...you aren't that updated.

Do you seriously think the scumteam is apt on lurking, UXLZ?
You are seemingly purely after those who are showing lower levels of activity, rather than even talking to those who are 'on the crest of the wave', so to speak.

Actually... Sorry ZU,

Unvote

I really don't know why I wasn't voting for you over Tiruin.

...'Sorry ZU'?
What is this happenstance of wording, UXLZ?

[Tiruin]

But back to the pertinent question: Why did you not use your power? Yes, its understandable that it would be a choice to 'catch me in my fakeclaim' under the situation where I am assumed to do the kill, but how did that situation overcome pretty much anything else in considering the nightly plan or...basically how you saw it?

Ugggggh haven't I already talked about this a lot?

I did it because I thought it was a good idea and it was part of my plan.

I understand; I had been questioning you about it under the impression that there was something deeper, and greater, that caused the priority of using or not using your power to be done. It makes sense now, which is something I'd detail later on after checking the previous days.

[UXLZ]

My sincere apologies about the ginormous wall of text. It was as much a pain writing it as it will be reading it, believe me...

Spoiler: Absolutely god damn FUCKHUGE response to Tiruin, read at own peril. (click to show/hide)

Also, Tiruin, before I begin responding, I'd like to mention that throughout your response I've seen a lot of points with you trying to evoke an emotional response (in either me or others.)
You seem to like to argue against points using feelings (like 'you're mean!') rather than logically refuting them. Please stop dying that, it's rather irritating. It leads to me thinking my points are still valid (because you haven't countered them) and you being under the mistaken illusion that I'm attacking you because I hate you or something ridiculous like that (hint: It's because my points haven't been countered.)

...'Sorry ZU'?
What is this happenstance of wording, UXLZ?

Er, I was apologizing for having a crappy vote on him? It was an overreaction to a perceived OMGUS. It may come as a surprise, but I don't like voting for people without fairly good reasons to.

Social pressure looks like it makes you identify towards what others say rather than who you know you are. Huh.
...Very, very intriguing.

That was a joke, Tiruin.

Err...
I think you mixed up your...ordinal relativity there. That, or you should've formatted the spoiler above the list--and indicated that its something previous.
Because its a bit hard to follow given this.
*looks at spoiler for reasons

If that's the case, my apologies.

OH COME ON.
After EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED, you STILL somehow find it a REASONABLE idea to even make that some kind of basis?!
Man...that's real low. -_-

I've explained this before, but as you seem to have failed to understand I shall do so again. It's not the lack of activity in and of itself (that can be excused), it's the nature of the activity that was actually there. You know, lots of posts complaining about how you couldn't post, responding to varied people questioning people about of your lack of activity by claiming that you couldn't read stuff... That you were obviously reading...
Claiming that the 'contentful' posts got swallowed (while the ones without any content 'miraculously' made it through...)

...So other than what I see as a lazy interpretation, how come you haven't ever questioned me or quoted and indicated...any significant inquest on my acts.

Because they had honestly mostly slipped passed my notice until today. I was getting altogether far too distracted by the 'argument' we were having earlier (in regards to you), and for that I feel I must apologize. I wasn't paying attention to what you were actually doing.

...Because for some reason, you're still going on the unrefutable argument of 'OOOOOOO ACTIVE LURKING' rather than see my defense IRL talking about technical difficulties.
That'd be real low for you as scum; you did acknowledge that earlier, but here?

Right... Because my only argument is the active lurking. Wait...
And what do you mean by 'irrefutable argument'? An irrefutable argument is usually something like 'There is an immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient pink unicorn living in my shed. It never lets its presence be known to anyone.'
That is the essence of an irrefutable argument, in this case you should be able to refute it by going 'hey, look, I wasn't active lurking'. However, apparently you can't, so what you seem to be saying is that I'm somehow wrong for using an argument that's right?
Also, what do you mean 'real low'?

...Until now, which somehow seems to be a conclusive deliverance until after voting ZU on...
Your bit of OMGUS

This makes utterly no sense to me. Please reiterate.

So what does this tell? You think something that was said in the first draft, which doesn't exist in the final post now, aren't 'too major'?

No, I think they were important. I just couldn't rewrite them at the time time because I had class to go to. I can't even really rewrite them not because I can't perfectly remember what I said, but I'll attempt to. Did you miss the 'just yet' in part of the paragraph you omitted, implying I'd be doing so later?

I'm heavily questioning your credibility of scumhunting here. One bit is your note on ZU. I could see reasoning in your vote on him, but it seems invariably discontinued to somehow still end in the conclusion of OMGUS.
These usually tell a lack of reads or a lack of substance into the effort one puts into their votes and in interacting with others--why is there a lacking directness of all this, and instead that label below?

It was more along the lines that I decided the OMGUS + all the other stuff wasn't major enough to continue justifying the vote of ZU over you. I didn't even realise until that very post just how scummy your actions actually were. It's amazing what you can hide behind obfuscation and emoticon spam, it seems.

Ooooo, very impactful note there.
Got proof? It's strange that you can come up with such high allegations, and yet lack the quote which would deliver the hammer-blow to make them tangible.

That case is my mistake. I was under the impression that you were still voting for Scripten, and couldn't check the tracker due it being blocked on the school network.

And did you note the tone of 'that person's' allegations towards me being solely out of speculation and guesswork?
Then forming a whole team out of it without bothering to ask on why I or DA even made such a work towards that?
Look at this from another viewpoint--that person is DA'S ASSOCIATE IN HIS DECISION OF HIS NIGHT ACTION, and SOMEHOW he can still pair DA up with me because of what we both claimed today; all without asking towards what in the world happened.
Because it seems that speculation can come up with an incredibly conclusive detail of who the scum are, given my action. I mean really--not even the simple question of asking why I did what I did, ever came up by him. And you, for that matter--though for some reason, you're not putting 'dubious night activity' as a reason on why you think I'm scum.

Still thought I was talking about Scripten there. I'll be reading over Persus' recent posts since ZU asked me to anyway, so I'll respond to this stuff at that point anyway.

Detail your thoughts on my night action, UXLZ.

Sure: Deus is the WORST POSSIBLE CHOICE YOU COULD HAVE MADE (assuming you aren't fakeclaiming). He's been practically confirmed town this entire game, and he's got an ability that's almost guaranteed to be using regardless of what alignment he is. He's an excellent choice for a fake target though, since there's a 0% chance that town!Deus wouldn't use his ability, and an almost 0% chance that scum!Deus would use it either (in case you're somehow magically a third party or something.)
So, my thoughts are this: Your choice was terrible if you're town looking to find stuff out, and good if you're fakeclaiming the results.
Actually, sorry, the worst possible choice you could have made was Scripten, since choosing Deus at least offers the possibility that you were well-intentioned.

...This doesn't help muchwhen you're lacking detail on why its reasonable here.

It's reasonable because your way of speaking and posts are indeed incredibly obfuscating. It could possibly be a personal problem where it's just me who finds your posts to be that way but I'll need someone other than you to refute this one. Understand?

..And NQT's analysis has credence here because?
He OR you have not addressed my corrections towards his analysis, given how you seem to be buying in towards his method of scumhunting, and somehow lacking your own (as said before, its like you're doing secondary work, using his primary effort).

Because he's a highly respected player who knows what he's doing and is also confirmed town?
Weren't your corrections something along the lines of 'You aren't taking my feelings into account waa waa', or did I miss something?
Erm, what's wrong with agreeing with NQT's method of scumhunting? You seem to dislike it quite intensely when people don't do things like you want them to.
If it seems like I'm lacking a style it's probably because I don't have one. This is my second game of forum mafia so I'm still unsure as to what 'method' I like most, whether that be the up-close-and-personal thing that Scripten apparently does, Jim's provocation or NQT's objective analysis. Maybe, can we just try and think for a second, that it's possible for someone to have multiple styles?
*gasp*
It's shocking, I know, that people don't always have to do everything exactly the same every time.

Next, the last part isn't that stable. I have pushed on many, many people--and it seems that you're taking the idea of my VOTE PLACEMENT as the people 'I've pushed on' to be the only thing that matters (or the thing that matters more).
This is why I said information about how my playstyle is earlier in this game. I am under the expectation that people would be at least accurate in judging my D1/2 by that manner, because anything otherwise is undefendable due to it being their opinion.
I mean really. Try defending against, not an accusation, but an allegation that you've been active lurking especially when you did state your reason on why you've been acting that way for 2 whole in-game days. I did note a very pertinent note early-in-game.
Somehow, for someone who can easily judge my efforts in D1/D2 with a really low level of analysis, can miss that.

That's... Kind of because your vote placement is more important. Because it's concrete and not based on guesswork and interpretation.
That's a meta-call that I don't plan on making. I don't know what your playstyle is, and I don't really care. Playstyles don't really matter because they should be quite varied.

Except, as I've said before, I'm not attacking you for lack of activity, I'm attacking you for activity while claiming lack of activity. At several points you made fairly large posts doing nothing but saying 'hey gaiz, my net's bad, so I can't post anything - oh, except for these multitude of posts explaining that I can't post anything.'
Do understand that I'm not saying your net wasn't screwing you over. I'm saying that despite having the opportunity to provide at least a tinsy tiny bit of content while it was doing so, you chose not to. Hell, you had to be screamed at to even commit to a vote towards the end of day 2, and a lot of the stuff you promised earlier on as 'coming in a little bit' took days to actually arrive. In-game days, that is. Real life time it was probably weeks.

Tell me, are you really and primarily listening to NQT, or are you judging by a chart he gives? If the former was done, NQT would at least be formal enough to mention his viewpoint on my activity, as seen in the PM below.

Err... Both?
I haven't been able to have much correspondence with NQT since our timezones don't match up. I've asked him for his input on this argument, to refute either your arguments or mine (so I won't be not posting it if he says I'm wrong somewhere, since it's important to have all the information out in the open.) but it's anyone's guess as to whether he'll be able to reply before the end of today.
Right, so it took you several in-game warnings and a PM to convince you stop posting needless prattle? Somehow that's supposed to convince me of... Something?

...You did notice that I'm voting Persus, who hasn't replied yet, right?
This kind of allegation really brings up the idea that...you aren't that updated.

Obviously not. I'm not so stupid as to lie to try and incriminate you; that would be distasteful anyway.
I didn't have access to the tracker so I didn't know where your vote was sitting. I was assuming it was either on Scripten or null.

you seriously think the scumteam is apt on lurking, UXLZ?
You are seemingly purely after those who are showing lower levels of activity, rather than even talking to those who are 'on the crest of the wave', so to speak.

Err... What? Apt on lurking? What does that mean? I've got maybe a hazy idea of what you're trying to say, but it's very unclear.
Also, if I'm 'purely after low activity guys', then why was I previously after ZU...? I wouldn't consider him as having low activity. Probably in the top half at the moment, to be honest.

Jim:

I'm not quite adjusted to my new schedule yet and if this game wasn't almost over I would probably replace out.

Why are you so sure the game is almost over? There's a chance that the game will end after today but that's highly unlikely, and there's still the possibility that it will persist for three more days. (Assuming the Scum aren't stupid enough to target the war vet.)
Confident in a mislynch, are you?

[UXLZ]

@The Guys Who Asked Me To Look At Persus:

My opinion remains fairly unchanged. I'd say he's null leaning town at the moment. He does a bit of useless stuff, but the thing that really strikes me as odd the most is less Persus' actions, and more that the two people asking me to look at his posts... Are the same two people that he theorizes are on a team together.

[Tiruin]

Y'know, UXLZ, the point being that your note on my 'lurking' on D1 and D2 is an evident idea, because you keep on bringing it up and then branching out from it to make reasons on why that makes me scummy instead of many, many other viewpoints which actually consider what I've said, instead of generalizing everything I said.

I'll cut the futility there and will address you in a PM instead.

Also, what do you mean 'real low'?

You using that idea of my activity D1/D2 to make something shady out of it, as a point of origin and reference.
Especially when I did say technical difficulties happened.

This makes utterly no sense to me. Please reiterate.

Your vote and essence of your vote, on ZU.
That bit was the one that made me suspect you a ton more. Apologizing, too, in that context.

No, I think they were important. I just couldn't rewrite them at the time time because I had class to go to. I can't even really rewrite them not because I can't perfectly remember what I said, but I'll attempt to. Did you miss the 'just yet' in part of the paragraph you omitted, implying I'd be doing so later?

This is analogous to how I feel when I talked about my activity in D1 and D2.

It was more along the lines that I decided the OMGUS + all the other stuff wasn't major enough to continue justifying the vote of ZU over you. I didn't even realise until that very post just how scummy your actions actually were. It's amazing what you can hide behind obfuscation and emoticon spam, it seems.

...Thrice damn. Such a very shallow accusation, but no proof.
Its like undermining my posts because emoticons actually have an effect, or rather more of an effect than the content I'm providing.

That case is my mistake. I was under the impression that you were still voting for Scripten, and couldn't check the tracker due it being blocked on the school network.

Somehow the tracker works for you? Do tell.
Because you could just check the few pages in between there, which I believe are not blocked by your school network.

Sure: Deus is the WORST POSSIBLE CHOICE YOU COULD HAVE MADE (assuming you aren't fakeclaiming). He's been practically confirmed town this entire game, and he's got an ability that's almost guaranteed to be using regardless of what alignment he is. He's an excellent choice for a fake target though, since there's a 0% chance that town!Deus wouldn't use his ability, and an almost 0% chance that scum!Deus would use it either (in case you're somehow magically a third party or something.)
So, my thoughts are this: Your choice was terrible if you're town looking to find stuff out, and good if you're fakeclaiming the results.
Actually, sorry, the worst possible choice you could have made was Scripten, since choosing Deus at least offers the possibility that you were well-intentioned.

And you didn't think I thought of that?
Why I poked him, and then correlated him AND ZU is because of the potential of the use of a SCUMGUARDIAN being totally useless to the scum if Town has no vigilante out there.
Could you back up why DA is infallible, given your idea here?

And please stop using percentages.

It's reasonable because your way of speaking and posts are indeed incredibly obfuscating. It could possibly be a personal problem where it's just me who finds your posts to be that way but I'll need someone other than you to refute this one. Understand?

No, because you don't bring up direct quotes. You can say that they're obfuscating--you aren't saying how.

Because he's a highly respected player who knows what he's doing and is also confirmed town?

...I meant his chart. You're using it instead of your own scumhunting as a rather big influence on how you see people. The power of the Medium is just like a famous quote usually attributed to the Spiderman movies, and I was cautioning you, before, because of how I see you using it--because I believed you were town. Now, I'm very doubtful as to your reasoning capabilities.

"With great power comes great responsibility."
--Voltaire; Francois-Marie Arouet {19th Century France}

You aren't using it well, given your vote pattern.

Erm, what's wrong with agreeing with NQT's method of scumhunting? You seem to dislike it quite intensely when people don't do things like you want them to.

If I wanted people to do things like I wanted them to, I'd make it blatantly direct.
I'm not against anyone agreeing with NQT's scumhunting--I advocate it as a possible method of scumhunting.
I'm against people using it as if it was holy dogma and the primary only method to scumhunt, which was done in your possible snark towards me.

Be direct here, get the quotes that make me stand out as scum. Quote them. Highlight. Summarize. HTML Link.
I want to see what you're made of.

If it seems like I'm lacking a style it's probably because I don't have one. This is my second game of forum mafia so I'm still unsure as to what 'method' I like most, whether that be the up-close-and-personal thing that Scripten apparently does, Jim's provocation or NQT's objective analysis. Maybe, can we just try and think for a second, that it's possible for someone to have multiple styles?

But that's not seemingly the case for you, as was discussed. I did not take in, however, the note on your Mafia experience. You could take my criticism (hopefully constructive) regarding NQT's analyses in that it is efficient, but not altogether holistic. Its a popular theory, given that me and him have been debating it...ever since I think that one game where there was Mafia, Masons and something there?

That's... Kind of because your vote placement is more important. Because it's concrete and not based on guesswork and interpretation.

Rebuttal: Its your value that you place on my vote that gives it importance. My playstyle and usage of the votes is very varyingly different from most other players, as I've noted.
...I also just note that I seem to misplace my link which I claimed earlier that explains my playstyle, to something I did in another game entirely. I was mistaking things here, in 4mask's game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also before anyone asks regarding blue and red with how I do my stuff (or the absence of such)--I don't do the normal 'present your stance'. I'm saying all this because most of you are new--not because I'm relying on metaknowledge (and because you are new...semantic shift there), but to explain in advance my standpoint regarding pressure and how I vote (to avoid the questions later on); I don't mark my targets, but wait until a degree of surity occurs in how I see them. My philosophy revolves around what is not present rather than what is present (or in better terms: non-quantity following): I rarely use the FOS, and when I vote, it has a degree of certainty poured into it; I'd rather vote in the seeming context of certainty rather than use the vote as a pressure valve, and vice versa: but my weakness is within my context and how my tone goes.

Except, as I've said before, I'm not attacking you for lack of activity, I'm attacking you for activity while claiming lack of activity. At several points you made fairly large posts doing nothing but saying 'hey gaiz, my net's bad, so I can't post anything - oh, except for these multitude of posts explaining that I can't post anything.'
Do understand that I'm not saying your net wasn't screwing you over. I'm saying that despite having the opportunity to provide at least a tinsy tiny bit of content while it was doing so, you chose not to. Hell, you had to be screamed at to even commit to a vote towards the end of day 2, and a lot of the stuff you promised earlier on as 'coming in a little bit' took days to actually arrive. In-game days, that is. Real life time it was probably weeks.

NQT's 'screaming' had no relevance to me voting. I voted not because of his post. Both things are inclusive of each other--I had voted because I trusted that guy given how I analyzed him in PMs.
Now understand my viewpoint. Do you realize why I've posted screenpics? Do you realize how, in all good coincidence that when you lose a giant post, you announce that you lost it? Are you aware of the feeling one gets which is discouragement, after losing such a large post?

Are you aware of the internet condition in the Philippines?

That's what is making me feel very discouraged about this drivel here. Its useless and senseless from my viewpoint, in discussing my acclaimed 'defense' on my 'activity' on D1/D2, because I've gone through a ton of technical rubbish in order to get those posts out. Mostly all of those posts which had occurred, was when I was at a public PC area.

Hence why I'm PMing you. Hence why I'm saying this is branching out from that perceived 'activity' during D1 and D2. Somehow you're making that a valid case to vote me--and yet you do not reply to me rebuttals on why that is invalidated.
I can extremely understand how that, again, is a valid and reasonable way to scumhunt, because I've foreseen that kind of accusation being dropped on me in the future back in those days.
But not at this level. Not at the level you're giving me here. Its gone off the reasonable end, and into the Spanish Inquisition.

[Deus Asmoth]

Jim: Any fishier than you complaining about people not following a plan that you had no intention of following yourself?

Except he did follow his plan.

No he didn't. His plan said that he'd follow someone. He didn't follow anyone, so he didn't follow his plan. Unless you meant the private plan that he shared with no one and that no one would have any reason to believe him about if he did catch someone out.

Here's what I said:

Jim Groovester visits a target of his choice.

Nobody is a valid target, so in a strictly pedantic way I actually did what I said I was going to.

I'm wondering whether or not you actually care or if you just want to point out how bad you thought my action was.

'Target of your choice' implies actually having a target. While you're technically correct, you were also deliberately misleading and not sharing your plan with anyone at all was a bad idea.

Already gone over this. Disassociating themselves in case one of them gets lynched later, for a start. Scum vote for each other quite a lot from what I've seen to accomplish that and go on to other cases later in the day, so I'm not sure why you think there's no possible benefit in scumJim voting for scumToaster early in the day with the intention of going on to a more likely lynch later on. Once the wagon built he wouldn't exactly have been able to go on to someone else when Toaster didn't defend himself without raising suspicion.

Why would I push for his lynch very near the end of the day though? It wasn't a sure thing that there would be enough people to jump on Shakerag. I just could've been quiet instead.

That's a really shitty scum gambit. It risks getting two votes for the scumteam killed when that's something worth keeping around.[/quote]
I'm not arguing that you're scum because of the vote on Toaster, I'm saying it's stupid to think there's no way you could be scum just because of that vote.

[UXLZ]

Your vote and essence of your vote, on ZU.
That bit was the one that made me suspect you a ton more. Apologizing, too, in that context.

You're right, how dare I apologize for a mistake I made!
You see, contrary to what you may believe, I actually believe my vote to be an important thing.
What are you trying to imply with that anyway, that ZU and I are on a team together?

This is analogous to how I feel when I talked about my activity in D1 and D2.

Right, but did you notice that I still managed to post a fair amount of content as well?

...Thrice damn. Such a very shallow accusation, but no proof.
Its like undermining my posts because emoticons actually have an effect, or rather more of an effect than the content I'm providing.

Spoiler: Definition (click to show/hide)

Obfuscation (or beclouding) is the hiding of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, willfully ambiguous, or harder to interpret.

That's why I mentioned that it's something relative and that I'll need other people (not you) to clarify. Personally I find the emoticon usage distracting and a waste of space, hence why I asked you to stop using them. (Which you seem to have done, so my thanks for that.) The other thing is the confusing way by which you speak. I'm never quite sure what exactly it is that you mean.

Somehow the tracker works for you? Do tell.
Because you could just check the few pages in between there, which I believe are not blocked by your school network.

Which I would have done... Had I not been on a slow laptop trying to get to class.

And you didn't think I thought of that?
Why I poked him, and then correlated him AND ZU is because of the potential of the use of a SCUMGUARDIAN being totally useless to the scum if Town has no vigilante out there.
Could you back up why DA is infallible, given your idea here?

And please stop using percentages.

The main reason why scum would want to DA to use his guarding ability rather than doing the NK is for two reasons (one of which is sorta wifom-y). The first is to keep up the town appearance he's maintained throughout the entire game; on the off chance someone decides to follow or inspect him, it just cements him as town even further.
The other reason is more concerete; it's simply there for safety and to try and account for extraneous variables. For instance, if there's a hivemind or something nuts in this game, even the scumteam wouldn't want it to convert townies so even if it's unlikely it's best to control for it just in case rather than getting lazy and complacent. 

Usually I mention if the percentages actually have mathematical backing. In this case I just used them to represent 'Absolutely no chance' and 'almost absolutely no chance'.

No, because you don't bring up direct quotes. You can say that they're obfuscating--you aren't saying how.

Because it's subjective. That's why I've asked other people to clarify, because your posts seem obfuscating to me (I've had to ask several times just what the hell you were talking about, and the emotes are distracting) but I can't say anything more concrete without verification from an outside source.

...I meant his chart. You're using it instead of your own scumhunting as a rather big influence on how you see people. The power of the Medium is just like a famous quote usually attributed to the Spiderman movies, and I was cautioning you, before, because of how I see you using it--because I believed you were town. Now, I'm very

You aren't using it well, given your vote pattern.

Right, because I was blindly following his chart when I decided to vote straight away for no other reason the 'definitely must lynch' person (ZU) in his chart and-Oh, wait. ZU wasn't the 'definitely lynch' person, that was you. Who I didn't actually vote for until I though more about what you had actually been doing.

Presumably 'not using it well' means 'not voting for the people I want you to vote'? 'Cause that's sure as hell what it sounds like you're saying.
Also, please remember that I was trying to lynch you on D2 (though I changed my vote to Pisskop due to discussion with Cheeetar via PM)... It's not like I've just suddenly decided to start suspecting you because of NQT.

If I wanted people to do things like I wanted them to, I'd make it blatantly direct.
I'm not against anyone agreeing with NQT's scumhunting--I advocate it as a possible method of scumhunting.
I'm against people using it as if it was holy dogma and the primary only method to scumhunt, which was done in your possible snark towards me.

You mean the thing riiiiight back at the start of this, when I called you the 'statistically scummiest player'?
Firstly, it was mostly intended as a joke since you were going on at me about being 'too statistical minded' or some hogwash like that.
Secondly, that's 'cause you are/were. It's not actually why I'm voting for you though, because as you should probably note, it took a fair amount of time afterward for me to actually vote for you.

Be direct here, get the quotes that make me stand out as scum. Quote them. Highlight. Summarize. HTML Link.

Blargh, I don't have time for that.

Not too bad by itself but the start of a pattern. Or the finish. God it's hard finding the posts you're looking for, even with tracker.
More of the trend.
Remember what I said about active lurking?
Even looking back I have no idea what this is. I think it's some sort of reads list? Everyone is null or town.
A vote, but it's blunt. It's also in response to someone voting for her.
Another blunt vote.
Obfuscation. It's all town or null but I guess it's close enough to the start of the game for that to not mean anything... I guess?
Example of obfuscation.
Net stuff~ Though this one I'll let slide since friends are important.
To link myself, on D2, making the same arguments as now... Though of course, with less.

That's just a cursory glance. If I have the capability tomorrow I'll try and retrieve more of the stuff I'm remember, but it's quite unlikely...

But that's not seemingly the case for you, as was discussed. I did not take in, however, the note on your Mafia experience. You could take my criticism (hopefully constructive) regarding NQT's analyses in that it is efficient, but not altogether holistic. Its a popular theory, given that me and him have been debating it...ever since I think that one game where there was Mafia, Masons and something there?

Personally, I think the case with analysis like that is that it should be used as a starting point rather than a finishing point, which I'm trying to do. It's the reason why I didn't immediately vote for you after revealing the table, and it's the reason why I've only used as a sort of side-point when saying why I think you're scum.

Rebuttal: Its your value that you place on my vote that gives it importance. My playstyle and usage of the votes is very varyingly different from most other players, as I've noted.

So you're saying that voting for people who voted for you was just a coincidence?
Yes, it's my/almost everyone's value that gives votes importance, but it's also your responsibility to answer that by actually using your vote. Personally, I try to use it sparingly, but I haven't been accused of not having cases against the people I've voted for, or been prompted to 'hurry up and god damn vote.'

That is to say, you don't get a free pass by saying 'but my playstyle!'
I wouldn't get away saying 'but my playstyle means I don't post until D3!', so you shouldn't get away with saying 'but my playstyle means I don't have to vote for the people I suspect!'

Blaaah, I can't afford to stay up any longer. Sorry about not being able to reply to the last part, that's my bad.

[Toaster]

I really don't like how spread out the votes are.  Far too easy for scum to try to influence things at the last minute.


Persus:

The above leads me to conclude that a ZU-Tiruin-someone else (probably DA) scumteam where Tiruin did the kill last night. Tiruin and ZU both voting Jim when no one else is voting cements this impression. If you are town, please vote, today is probably our last chance to win this one.

Why vote Tiruin over ZU?  Why spread the votes so thin?  Has your opinion on either changed today?


UXLZ:  Why do I think you're hedging your bets with your arguments so you have the option to switch to the right mislynch at the last moment?  Do you actually think ZU and Tiruin are both scum?


Tiruin:  Do you still think Persus is scum more than anyone else?  You're spending all your time focused elsewhere.


ZU's block doesn't make much sense for Scum ZU to block the same person they're nightkilling; why not block a power role, or pretend to block a scumbuddy to give them towncred?

I still think Jim's action choice was weak, even if I can see his logic behind it.

Still rather annoyed with how little role scrutiny Scripten has gotten.  I can't get over my distrust of him.

[zombie urist]

Yeah I unfortunately don't have too much time today. I briefly scanned through the UXLZ/Tiruin posts but I don't really understand much. I'd really prefer lynching Scripten over Tiruin because Tiruin can still provide some provable information. Anyways I hope Scripten can answer my questions before day end but I guess not cuz he's scum. 

Still don't like that totally illogical scumteam he proposed at day start, kinda suspicious how defensive he's been the entire game, really don't like how Jim backed off of him D2 (this actually makes sense as a bus since Toaster put a decent case on him), completely weak reasons for voting the entire game.

I find it pretty funny how UXLZ says he thinks Tiruin is town and will stop arguing with her, then backtracks the next post. Lets see if Scripten will join the Tiruin wagon.

[zombie urist]

Also, Deus isn't anywhere close to being confirmed town. A Deus/Tiruin/Toaster scumteam is completely plausible. It would explain quite a bit (i.e. Deus protecting Tiruin his suspect from the day before, Tiruin telepathing Deus). It also agrees with Persus' analysis.

I guess in this case Tiruin is actually the safest lynch because if she's town then Toaster is probably town and we will still have another day and the scumteam will be Jim/Scripten/someone else, but if Tiruin is scum, Toaster probably is too and then lynching her won't end the game either.

[zombie urist]

Persus said that he'd either be guarding me or UXLZ, I told him I'd be guarding one of Cheeetar or Tiruin.

Why did you choose Cheeetar over Tiruin?

What changed your mind about Tiruin? Be specific.

What do you think about Tiruin's play today and her interactions with UXLZ?

[Scripten]

Zombie Urist:

Ugh. I don't have time for this crap. There needs to be about 500% less WoTing in this game. (Myself included.)

Yeah I unfortunately don't have too much time today. I briefly scanned through the UXLZ/Tiruin posts but I don't really understand much. I'd really prefer lynching Scripten over Tiruin because Tiruin can still provide some provable information. Anyways I hope Scripten can answer my questions before day end but I guess not cuz he's scum. 

Oh, come off it. I've been busy and contributing content. Tell me what the hell you've done this game besides try to flail and save your own sorry hide, scum. I also love how you're pushing that I'm a preferable lynch because Tiruin can provide useful information. DID YOU MISS THAT YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE SCUM? This is just a blatant example of how scummy your play has been all game and I'm disappointed in my fellow townies who haven't caught on.

Oh, and your emergency Tiruin quickwagon is bullshit. You need to hang today, scum.

Still don't like that totally illogical scumteam he proposed at day start

Give me a fucking break. Illogical how? Because your confbias fabricated BS reads don't agree? Puh-lease.

kinda suspicious how defensive he's been the entire game

This is really fecking rich coming from your OMGUS-y ass. Prove it or get out.

really don't like how Jim backed off of him D2 (this actually makes sense as a bus since Toaster put a decent case on him), completely weak reasons for voting the entire game.

This is misrepresentation and utter crap. Toaster's push on me was terrible. You're just sore because you can't kill me without getting caught and you can't seem to push a mislynch on me. Whine more, scum.

Lets see if Scripten will join the Tiruin wagon.

Nope. You're scum and I don't think your flailing counterwagon is a bus.

Hang.

Also you completely misunderstood what I'm saying here. I was going to vote him even if he wasn't voting me.

No you weren't. You were townreading me at day start, lying scum. You've been capitalizing on the fact that I've been busy lately and pushing untruths. I only have about half an hour, but I can refute your bullshit enough in that time.

Its true and if you think otherwise please explain how bussing Toaster at that point in the game would be helpful. When Jim first voted Toaster no one else was and he simply could have voted Shakerag because they were about equally lurky.

Are you defending Jim because you want to keep the focus off of him or because you want us to think he's your scumbuddy when you flip? Can't really see why you feel the need to jump in to defend someone so hard when they're barely being pressured.

See above.

Uh... no. Doesn't work. Try again.

You can't just say "I was going to do this anyway" when the flow of your posts and reads doesn't add up. You need to back your gak up or get out.

Why was Cheeetar high threat? IMO he was totally useless D2 and D3 considering how wrong he was about Pisskop. I guess killing him would bring about LYLO faster but that's about it. I'm speculating the reason they killed Cheeetar because if the other people UXLZ PM'd trusted NQT, then Cheeetar would become a nearly confirmed town and that would be bad, especially since Cheeetar is enchanter.

Being wrong once doesn't mean that they aren't dangerous. Plenty of strong mafia players are wrong all the time.

Scripten needs to respond to the questions in this quote.

What questions? You didn't post the quote here and I don't have time to skim the game every day.

What's your opinion on Scripten thinking Tiruin was town yesterday and scum today?

Whoa. What game are you reading?

I was VOTING TIRUIN all yesterday until the VERY end and I've had her as a wavering town/scum read since then. You're not even trying to pretend you're town here.

Toaster:

Deus, Scripten, and UXLZ:  Can you summarize your cases on ZU?  I'm not sure I understand why he's getting the votes he is.

His justifications for voting and making reads come right out of thin air. He'll switch opinions just for convenience of himself or other players rather than as a way to scumhunt. Note how he'll townread a player, then flip them over to a scumread just so he can push an agenda. His attack on me is just OMGUS and now he's pushing a counterwagon on Tiruin just to avoid getting lynched himself. He doesn't care who hangs as long as it's not him/a scumbuddy.

I can't honestly believe that this isn't obvious by the way he's been playing.

[zombie urist]

Pfp I meant at the end of day obviously. I changed my mind just like you did so I don't know why you're so hung up on that. I already explained why the scenario doesn't make sense. I honest have no idea how you could believe so otherwise, unless jim is the dumbest scum player ever (he's not). I haven't been anywhere as close to defensive as you have; I've posted large amounts on my thoughts throuput the game.

I think you missed the part where now I think the scumteam is Tiruin deus toaster so I mo longer think you're scum, just bad town.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
zombie urist: Deus Asmoth, Scripten
Persus13: Tiruin
Tiruin: zombie urist, Persus13, UXLZ
Toaster: Jim Groovester


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today (about 6 hours)

[Scripten]

Pfp I meant at the end of day obviously. I changed my mind just like you did so I don't know why you're so hung up on that. I already explained why the scenario doesn't make sense. I honest have no idea how you could believe so otherwise, unless jim is the dumbest scum player ever (he's not). I haven't been anywhere as close to defensive as you have; I've posted large amounts on my thoughts throuput the game.

I think you missed the part where now I think the scumteam is Tiruin deus toaster so I mo longer think you're scum, just bad town.

Can you please at least quote the relevant parts of my post so I know what you're referring to? Or, at least, mention in your post what you are replying to? Otherwise it makes your pfp posts pretty much us

The only reason you changed your opinion on me was because Tiruin was a viable mislynch and you had no support for mine. (Remember where you said that you preferred my lynch to Tiruin?) You can't even keep your BS stories consistent, can you?

Can people please vote this goddamn scum to hang? Thank you.