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[Tiruin]

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This should've been a long way beforehand ._.
But then net.

While analyzing the night kill is not usually a particularly good strategy, I think it's pertinent that NQT was drawing suspicion toward the end of the day due to his vote on Tiruin. I assert that scum are trying their best to protect Tiruin from being lynched, and NQT was too much of a threat to leave alive. Killing him would leave the wagon in my hands, and I haven't been as active nor as strong of a player and I also do not have the metagame sway that NQT possesses.

Since NQT was trying to organize night investigations, do we have any positives?

Alright, to cut off the rubbish before it starts again--SCRIPTEN, the reason I voted you yesterday was purely due to your antics D1, until now.

You lack scumhunting--instead preferring the notion of lurking over logical questioning; in my perspective, this is usually the case when the day-game...falters, yet not all wish to admit it: evident in the time of D2 instead of further days, primarily because of that one notion. Lurking, as a primary reason for your vote.

I've highlighted quite a note on your post which has...a lot of underlying assumptions and ideas. Please dear, do detail as much.
Because NQT was the person I was corresponding to (and totally honest until now; He was the one who started to detail things to me, and not the other way around).

We had been passing info through the night henceforth, which is why his attitude towards me was like such.
^{Also as a note for posterity NQT, that thing you do...is awesome. But for REAL posterity, full dependence on purely quantitative analysis is...a faulty and lacking method of finding and being conclusive :/ You need qualitative back up to make it holistic and credible.}

[Cheeetar]

Claims:

Cheeetar: Human Enchanter
Jim Groovester: Human Reporter
Persus13:
Shakerag: Human Mad Scientist (Intelligence)
Deus Asmoth: Human Bodyguard (Guardian)
UXLZ:
Scripten:
Tiruin: Human Telepath
zombie urist:
Toaster:

Let me know what I've missed.

Questions:
DA, what was your night 2 action?
Tiruin, what was your night 2 action?
(I asked this before but whatever) Shakerag, where did NQT and UXLZ go last night?

What information does a massclaim give the town, though? With multiples of any role possible, fake claims are insidiously easy for scum to make.

The aim is to see what people have done the previous nights, and see if it matches up with what NQT tells me (via medium) his investigation results were and what Tiruin tells us what her investigation results were, as well as further investigation by Jim.

[UXLZ]

Ah, it seems the massclaiming has started. I'm a Medium.

I won't have to relay messages through Cheeetar any more. NQT has not yet responded in the deadchat as to what his result was.

[Scripten]

Tiruin:

Big post not here because public PC shop--its saved on my laptop at home primarily because the net died there YET AGAIN >_>

Fair enough. I've believed you about your issues, but I still would like to see your post at your earliest convenience. After all, promising content that isn't delivered is kind of a scumtell, as I'm sure we're all aware of.

Oh, and that bit with NQT and me?
I'M A TELEPATH.
He knew I'm a Telepath--and judging by the PMs I've received lately, has spread the info to some few others. I, however, did not know he was a Telepath (basically I roleclaimed to him and sent him info through PMs, primarily because I'm silly and decide to trust others instead of 'OMG NO TRUST FOR YOU, YOU MAY BE SCUUUM' and all that paranoia. :v)

I suppose this is something that we can get from the medium when that comes along.

Why I said I was confiding in another Telepath is because it was a thing I spoke to NQT about in PMs. "Hey, NQT, I'll just claim someone was telling me his notes instead of my results."
...So basically, y'all know my N1 target. Toaster was my target primarily because I had a lack of basis in D1--until now, I still see pisskop as town (now = D2 end, before the lynch) because of the DA-Pissk situation. Regardless of his attitude (not meaning I discard his attitude, but because of how he acted)

Regardless of your roleclaim here, I find it strange that NQT would be scumreading you while you are confiding in him like this. I suppose we can let him speak for himself since we have a medium, though. Hopefully he does not miss this.

...>_>
<_<
Also you could blunt that last sentence's point a bit. Technical setbacks happen, and I've pics to show it (to those unbelievers like UXLZ :I [/I'mStillGrumpyOverWhatISawAsGeneralizingMySituation]

It's more that you were posting during that time, but the posts were almost all fluff. It's active lurking. Surely you recognize the difference between that and inactivity?

Alright, to cut off the rubbish before it starts again--SCRIPTEN, the reason I voted you yesterday was purely due to your antics D1, until now.

You lack scumhunting--instead preferring the notion of lurking over logical questioning; in my perspective, this is usually the case when the day-game...falters, yet not all wish to admit it: evident in the time of D2 instead of further days, primarily because of that one notion. Lurking, as a primary reason for your vote.

ACTIVE lurking. That is, making posts with no content, just to show activity, but claiming that actual content is forthcoming without ever giving that content. I'm sorry for your net. I really am. It sucks. However...

You can't say that I can't build my case on your play when that is the only thing we have to go on. I'm not saying you're scum because you're not posting much. I'm saying you're scum because of the following reasons:

- You've spent the majority of the game not contributing content - This is only counting the posts you have made, not holding postcount against you.
- I haven't seen you make a strong push on -anyone- until now, and it's on the person who's been scumhunting you most of the game for not scumhunting - Pure OMGUS
- You keep saying that you have points to make, but you haven't even summarized them. I mean, right now, the only point you've made against me is that I'm picking on you for being inactive, which is itself fallacious.

I've highlighted quite a note on your post which has...a lot of underlying assumptions and ideas. Please dear, do detail as much.
Because NQT was the person I was corresponding to (and totally honest until now; He was the one who started to detail things to me, and not the other way around).

We had been passing info through the night henceforth, which is why his attitude towards me was like such.
^{Also as a note for posterity NQT, that thing you do...is awesome. But for REAL posterity, full dependence on purely quantitative analysis is...a faulty and lacking method of finding and being conclusive :/ You need qualitative back up to make it holistic and credible.}

Okay, so you were talking to NQT. He obviously didn't think that your correspondence made you town, so I'm not sure why this should make us think so?

[Tiruin]

Tiruin, what was your night 2 action?

I await the rest to claim--because this will validate or invalidate someone here.

I suppose this is something that we can get from the medium when that comes along.

Sure
HIII NQT! I dislike your wordplay but understand your level of secrecy for me!
*Tiruin totally talks indiscreetly to the Medium's face as if they were NQT :v

But yeah. This will be hilarious for him when he sees it all. >_<
^{Also this is my worst game yet. Ugh inactivity.}

Regardless of your roleclaim here, I find it strange that NQT would be scumreading you while you are confiding in him like this. I suppose we can let him speak for himself since we have a medium, though. Hopefully he does not miss this.

Actually, its a perfectly understandable move.
How would you react if, say, it goes like this:
> You are NQT.
> You send a message to Tiruin, consoling her on internet troubles and make a little chitchat, also make a nice greeting.
> She is silly. She then roleclaims everything and fumbles up her words like a shy girl she is. Her full claim is right before your eyes, and it appears like she's fully trusting you.
> What do you do?

Because that is what I pretty much assume he's going at. Manifest a facade of logical playstyle to put scrutiny and/or manipulate the flow of the day-conversations in-thread...and that works as a very efficient scumhunting tool as it allows others to participate and voice out their thoughts. Especially when you're acting as a kind of mastermind-esque figure.

It's like making a psychology experiment, with the placebo effect as a factor, and Blinding the participants as to its presence.

It's more that you were posting during that time, but the posts were almost all fluff. It's active lurking. Surely you recognize the difference between that and inactivity?

. . . >_>
Yes...technically.
Because I grew up (heh, grew up...), meaning I learned all my Mafia from this board, and was only introduced to Mafia in this board. As I grew up, my experiences around the idea of 'active lurking' meant "I can post everywhere else but here, as well as collude with my co-conspirators in doing actively and apparently nothing in the in-game thread", and not of the usual 'You're doing something else, {person}, get to posting here!' {under the implication of lacking value towards the game, or lacking investment [as it is assumed a regular townie would put much effort in order to scumhunt, due to the lacking factor of inside information]}

...So this all means that I've grown up with noting 'Active lurking' as a negative connotation rather than the neutral one it realistically is ._.
But yeah, they weren't really active lurking things. I didn't just feel like posting much at the time (...given how long it took one single page to load, and to completely quote it to preserve the 'quote timestamp').

You can't say that I can't build my case on your play when that is the only thing we have to go on. I'm not saying you're scum because you're not posting much. I'm saying you're scum because of the following reasons:

- You've spent the majority of the game not contributing content - This is only counting the posts you have made, not holding postcount against you.
- I haven't seen you make a strong push on -anyone- until now, and it's on the person who's been scumhunting you most of the game for not scumhunting - Pure OMGUS
- You keep saying that you have points to make, but you haven't even summarized them. I mean, right now, the only point you've made against me is that I'm picking on you for being inactive, which is itself fallacious.

This...is all very understandable, everything above here.
However, on #2: I didn't make a 'push' on anyone because of my lacking presence, primarily. Lacking presence meaning that I was also analyzing how everyone else interacted, trying to see who was town before pushing the judgment of guiltiness on them.
Also...I don't think its a thing of 'scumhunting you most of the game for not scumhunting'...because you were voting me ever since Day 1.

And here's where I bring up that annoying fad of using terms which carry background meanings to them. OMGUS. A very annoying term to bring up because it doesn't apply at all, given its origin context. Unless you particularly mean I'm voting you for no reason at all other than to just vote you, it doesn't apply.
Unless that's how you see my vote.
...
Right, big post. >_>

Okay, so you were talking to NQT. He obviously didn't think that your correspondence made you town, so I'm not sure why this should make us think so?

. . .I wasn't giving it out as evidence to think so?
And...rather just saying it out?
I mean, I could be silly with NQT and really check the claimed Medium (if any) by asking NQT to post in deadchat "What flavor of tea did Tiruin take at night" but that'd be just silly.
^{Though I'm seriously considering this tangent for some reason.}

[Jim Groovester]

I said it usually isn't, but sometimes you can just take Occam's razor to it. I'm doing just that.

Are you really applying Occam's Razor correctly here? Assuming that a player was killed because they're strong town seems simpler than assuming that a player was killed because another player is scum and that the scumteam is trying to protect their member. The first theory requires no extra assumptions about the nature and makeup of the scumteam whereas your explanation does.

It's a stretch and I don't like it.

What information does a massclaim give the town, though? With multiples of any role possible, fake claims are insidiously easy for scum to make.

If we scrutinize all the claims a few inconsistencies may arise that can help in finding scum.

It also helps with organization. A coordinated town is an extremely effective force.

Fake claims are an issue but if any counterclaims aren't immediately found out a combination of reads and planning can help us pin down who the scum are over the course of successive nights.

Oh, and that bit with NQT and me?
I'M A TELEPATH.
He knew I'm a Telepath--and judging by the PMs I've received lately, has spread the info to some few others.

I thought it was pretty apparent from the way you were talking about your mysterious Telepath confidant that it was actually you yourself. I don't think notquitethere necessarily spread that information around.

> You are NQT.
> You send a message to Tiruin, consoling her on internet troubles and make a little chitchat, also make a nice greeting.
> She is silly. She then roleclaims everything and fumbles up her words like a shy girl she is. Her full claim is right before your eyes, and it appears like she's fully trusting you.
> What do you do?

Good God, am I the only person who doesn't claim to people the moment they PM me?

[Tiruin]

Good God, am I the only person who doesn't claim to people the moment they PM me?

No, that's just me and NQT Everyone else would've been met with a degree of scrutiny evident in this emoticon.

:I

I thought it was pretty apparent from the way you were talking about your mysterious Telepath confidant that it was actually you yourself. I don't think notquitethere necessarily spread that information around.

I guessed as much, considering a certain tone in some people's posts. And the logic in seeing my post back there, too.

[notquitethere]

(Bah)

Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete

[Deus Asmoth]

Cheetar: I protected Shakerag. I figured his tracker bots would make him a high priority target for the scum.

Tiruin: can we see your reads? Shorthand ones will do if you can't do a long post.

[UXLZ]

ZU: Don't claim yet.

Tiruin: Can you please PM Scripten your results before Zombie Urist claims?

[Tiruin]

Tiruin: Can you please PM Scripten your results before Zombie Urist claims?

Eh? Why should I? :v As an aside, I'm tired of playing the PM game. It can be easily manipulated by scum, given the choice of recipients, and the further telling in PMs--with little evidence of back up. (Though this is just me being a bit grumpy of not having the fun of it--the PM mechanic is a very intriguing one, and extremely flexible as to its power, that disputing or supporting it is not necessarily conclusive merely out of theory)
. . .
I believe and feel like you're getting background information, myes? This question is...very out of place. Especially when you mention a specific person out of basically everyone who didn't claim yet. :I

...Though considering this, it doesn't do any wrong. If ZU is scum along with Scripten--thus the analogy follows--then the only way this would end up badly is if he's tied in along with them (ie changed claim). However it'll still be a roadblock if Scripten is scum :v

So back up to the question: Why do you ask me this? Why mention a specific person out of this? And does everyone in deadchat drink tea?

Tiruin: can we see your reads? Shorthand ones will do if you can't do a long post.

Tuned to focused aiming.

    Cheetar= Still aligned with my earlier read--leaning town, though his...methods of extricating information (or, y'know, how he dealt with pisskop) didn't nudge me well, due to how he gives analysis towards people that way.
    Jim Groovester= Neutral, though leaning town due to how he's straightforward in his responses and very much reminding me like Mr. T. Someone who means well a lot, but sometimes gets grumpy and ham-fisted.
    Persus13= ...I did not read well into him, but he's still along the same alignment as before, providing an open-minded recourse to the previous events these days (ie Pisskop being scum // D1 happenings with 4mask // Analysis of flabort)
    Shakerag= Err. I am unsure. To be fully honest--I got a PM D1 about him asking me to team up with him--I asked him for a hug in return. I have never gotten it.
           In all seriousness, I am still unsure and leaning neutral on him. His posts match mine--a bit scarce, but with content merely needing nudging at times. However I dislike that the last lynch-talks have been primarily focused on inactives rather than on those already present. It speaks of the way the lynch occurs--focus on the 'lurkers' because of many, various reasons in implying scum, instead of those scum who are active, due to a 3-man team already in tandem versus the assumed force of lurkers (in which I can go on a massively pointed debate on why LYNCHING LURKERS ISN'T A GOOD IDEA EARLY GAME in this context but I'd belay that for now)
    Deus Asmoth= Town. Or Scum. Leaning more on neutral at the moment--while the N1 event was something to ponder and talk about, the duality of seeing a Guardian-Dopp would also work in the same, especially given the PM system (which is what leads to my bias of it); conventionally, scum can do whichever they can do, but with a PM system and townies under the same idea (as primarily, this 'PM' system is very similar to a Mason mechanic)--if DA is scum, he knows MC is doing the kill, and has free reign of choosing his protect target; the only problem is anyone with a kill, sans other dopps (unless Rogue Dopp exists). The notion that he protected pisskop does not, as I earlier thought, preclude him from being a dopp himself.
    UXLZ = ...Curious. You say you're a Medium, hmm? At the same level of reads to everyone else, all require further study.
    Scripten = Leaning scum, which I should really post my big post to note.
    Tiruin = Hi! I'm a town telepath. Please believe me despite my previous attempts at playing this game and failing badly. I will make it up to you via making this mountain a glorious tea plantation. Also I've been sadly too silly this game--evident in my tone and text at times which smudges my aura of seriousness.
    zombie urist = Neutral.
    Toaster = Neutral.

Oh, also I believe pisskop was hearty town all through D2, and think the lynch on him is...foolhardy--my background here is due to learning behavior of people through many various circumstances; in seeing pisskop, while his attitude is different and spotty at many times, there are very certain instances which poke him out as Town, instead of the evident notion of RiA'ing (which, contrary to many of those under this assumption when seeing deviant behavior, is a very small portion of those who actually play like such).

[Cheeetar]

ZU: Don't claim yet.

What's this bullshit?

Zombie Urist: Why haven't you claimed yet?

[Deus Asmoth]

Tiruin, out of your neutral reads, who do you think is most likely to make up the other two members of the scum team if you're right about Scripten?

UXLZ, why pick someone who hasn't claimed yet (and whose claim can then still be influenced by Tiruin's result) for her to send her night action to?

[Shakerag]

Shakerag, did UXLZ leave his house last night?

nope
nor nqt

[UXLZ]

Blehh, in regards to Cheeetar and Deus' reactions to my posts...

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

++Wooo++ this is NQT speaking from the grave. It'll take more than a night kill to shut me up apparently. You can tell this is me speaking because I breadcrumbed DJWEST in post #86 (first letter of the first six names in reverse order). D J West wrote a book named Psychical Research Today. I told UXLZ to tell Tiruin to PM Scripten her action because I didn't think Scripten and her N2 target were on the same team. The important thing is that she's PM'd somebody her action so that people can't accuse her of making it up after she hears all the claims. If she has sent it to someone then it's safe for ZU to claim. When everyone has claimed, UXLZ will tell everyone what my night results were. What I want to know first though was why Jim wasn't killed by Toony if he was following Cheese?