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[Tiruin]

The war vet counted as a third party, correct?

No.
I think you should read the OP thoroughly.
All Aliens (other than Agent Operative) and the Rogue Dopp = Third party-ish.
Its based on the wincon.

Tiruin is up and doing things.  I'm not sure if happy or sad.

I am still sick and feel like a sick fishie. Air hurts in its undiluted form. Gah.

Also it would help if you answered my questions too. :v
Like, how you got in touch with the Guardian.

[pisskop]

Isnt it obvious?  DA was in 4masks pm group.  When I placed I sent out PMs.

[Cheeetar]

Spoiler: Deus Asmoth (click to show/hide)

Cheeetar:

I'm having trouble parsing what you're claiming, Deus Asmoth.
First of all: I was never 100% certain that Flabort was town, and saying that is mischaracterising me to the extreme. I would have been had I died, because he wouldn't've told me he was planning to kill ToonyMan if he was planning on killing me. I made this clear before.

Hey. If I die in the night, quote this for the thread? I'm sending this to you because I think you're less likely to be mafia. I've sent this separately to 3 other people, and I'm going to send a list of the people I sent this PM to to one other person, so don't think about not quoting it. Cheers!

Flabort isn't mafia.

Yes, I can see how it's totally misrepresenting the opinions you presented if I say that you were certain that flabort wasn't scum.

Here. I explained this for you before. In what you quoted, you'll note there is a very important if. This is because I would only be sure of it if I died in the night, as I told you twice before.

Secondly: Did you really want to be going out of your way to prevent Flabort from making a kill and proving his claim of vigilante? You're aware that the reason many wanted him to survive the night was for him to be able to prove his roleclaim, and that protecting the person he was going to kill would be minimising town's information?

So it's worth letting an investigative role on the town's side get killed when I can do something to prevent it so that we can make sure that another player is a vigilante- and not necessarily one on our side? That's an odd way of looking at it, unless you're trying to get the town killed off for some reason.

If we know he's a vigilante, we know who to blame for everyone killed by a vigilante. He's a controllable tool that town may use. Instead you chose to protect the either incredibly scummy or incredibly clueless Pisskop. How do you know Pisskop is on town side? You don't? Oh! Well then. You're just using it as justification for everything you've done without any proof. Okay then.

Third: Why not protect Flabort, who as a vigilante was a much higher priority for death than Pisskop?

Because I trusted pisskop more, flabort's roleclaim was bizarre and pointless and he spent most of day one acting like a lunatic.

Fourth: The 'corpse' if you had protected Flabort would've been ToonyMan's, the one with the bullet in it. We know from flavour he was targeted by a human as well as a doppelganger, and I would've been more than able to back up Flabort's claim that he planned on killing ToonyMan. Given that Mastahcheese would still be dead at Toony's house, and revealed as a doppelganger, we would have a confirmed human vigilante.

No, we would have had a confirmed vigilante that could be a human or a doppelganger. There's a pretty major difference there. And by the by, I can back up pisskop's claim that he was going to investigate Tooney.

As above: Protecting the vigilante so he may be proven is more important than protecting the person who claimed reporter so they can , because

What do I think you protected Pisskop from? ToonyMan. Why do you think it wasn't him?

I don't think it wasn't him. You seem to be suggesting that pisskop's reporter claim is false and you're certainly trying to convince people that he's scum, so there would be no reason for him to target Tooney at all on the same night as they planned to kill him, unless you're willing to admit some gaping holes in your fourth claim there. Since he wouldn't have been targeting Tooney, I would have had to protect him from something else, so I was curious about what you thought that was.

My theory of Pisskop being protected from ToonyMan at the time was that Pisskop was the one performing the scum kill. I'm sorry this wasn't evident.

Still feeling the urge to lynch Pisskop to find out Deus Asmoth's alignment. Will attempt to ignore it. DA: Did you read the post after the one you replied to at all? Perhaps it will illuminate my current attitude and approach.

[Cheeetar]

Quick post. There's no reason for the scumteam to kill the guardian, so the only downside is that scum can eliminate someone they don't need to kill.

This is odd. The guardian is the only person who is guaranteed to be killable for the scumteam (can't protect himself), plus while he's protecting Pisskop we'll have a huge boon to finding out who scum is (assuming they're actually a reporter.)

[Deus Asmoth]

Cheeetar: I read it after I'd posted the reply to your first post. I tend to just click the post button a lot if I get the new replies warning more than once and read what I missed after getting my replies down when they're still probably relevant.

I trusted that pisskop is town based off his replies and behaviour. If that's not good enough for you, it's really not my problem. As for protecting a claimed vigilante (whose claim I had no reason to trust whatsoever), who behaved just as erratically as you think pisskop did, was open to suggestion on who to kill if he trusted the person, and also trusted you being town because you made a mistake on the number of scum in the game (a mistake Mastahcheese also made), why would he be any higher on my list of who I should protect?

Tiruin:

You both are newbies, above the preliminary line of suspecting both of you being scum.

For some reason--you decide to protect the Reporter out of all people present; someone who may or may not be scum, and probably wasn't told on the Reporter's target.

I was told who Pisskop would be targeting, I've already said this.

Next is why you revealed yourself as the Guardian in the first place. I'm unsure if you stated why, if at all--just that you stated 'I protected pisskop, I'm the Guardian'.

Because Mastahcheese knew about my role. I've already said this.

Probably because this was all told in PMs (hence my initial suspicion that this game is 50%~ in PMs >:I)

50/50 scum/town time:
If you're scum, you somewhat guarded Pisskop...for what purpose? Trust of the Reporter? :V And somehow you revealed yourself to him--with the utter lack of suspicion on his front?

No idea what the purple part is supposed to mean.

Yeah, a ton of details are lost in between. And furthering that, a ton of details you aren't telling.

If you want to know what happened, you could try asking instead of insinuating that I'm actively withholding details. After flabort broke Mask's gambit, I went with my gut and offered to protect him for the night because I thought he was telling the truth and liked the cut of his jib.

If he's scum and you're town--you would also be suspicious of his requests or whatever, but I don't even know how in the world both of you got in friendly terms with each other that way, because neither of you even speak about it in public thread. Doubly so, that...of all the darn people, you somehow value a Reporter, who you may or may not know the alignment of (unless both are scum), instead of randomly picking all other people here. Like, really.

Yes, I can see why guarding someone chosen at random would be a better idea than guarding a power role that had been outed early in the day. You also seem to have missed perhaps the most obvious solution to a problem that you're making a lot more convoluted that it actually is; we could just both be town.

Also, why did you guard pisskop?

Because I asked him to, silly. 

Jim, I saved Pisskop from a shot that came from a window of (presumably) Tooney's house. I guarded him because I figured that after flabort outed him to the entire game it was a reasonably good bet that the scumteam would try to kill him.

With pisskop giving that kind of answer.
>_>
<_<
'Reasonably good bet' compared to what? What is your reasoning behind that choice, over a random other?

Compared to the chances of them targeting some other random bugger? The reasoning behind my choice was 'Oh hey, our reporter has for some reason been outed to the entire game and the scum can kill him with impunity! Maybe I should, I don't know, try to prevent that from happening?'

And again. You think we're both scum. Why aren't you voting for either of us?

[Tiruin]

Pisskop

Isnt it obvious?  DA was in 4masks pm group.  When I placed I sent out PMs.

...Could you remind me on how 4mask's PM invoked DA to tell he's a Guardian, for some reason?

And again. You think we're both scum. Why aren't you voting for either of us?

You're somehow under the impression that I do--instead of me suspending judgement until after a thorough inquiry, huh.

No idea what the purple part is supposed to mean.

I didn't know the MC part.
..Or why you're revealing your role over PMs, anyway.
Was it mentioned back in the thread? I didn't fully read up. >_<

If you want to know what happened, you could try asking instead of insinuating that I'm actively withholding details. After flabort broke Mask's gambit, I went with my gut and offered to protect him for the night because I thought he was telling the truth and liked the cut of his jib.

You're somehow on the defensive, despite me not taking a hostile or interrogative tone, but merely mentioning my viewpoint that I lack seeing how these things connect.

Yes, I can see why guarding someone chosen at random would be a better idea than guarding a power role that had been outed early in the day. You also seem to have missed perhaps the most obvious solution to a problem that you're making a lot more convoluted that it actually is; we could just both be town.

...Somehow you aren't getting that I'm thinking the orange part, too, and instead speak as if being defensive?
Or, y'know, ask my viewpoint?

...Can you explain how this {blue part} works, given the uncertainty of the person you're guarding?
I mean, you're...aware that mostly everyone is a power-role (unless rarely ever, being a Vanilla Townie, though I don't recall anyone ever being a vanilla townie in any of Meph's games).
Unless you're under the impression that non-PRs are present, maybe?

[Deus Asmoth]

And again. You think we're both scum. Why aren't you voting for either of us?

You're somehow under the impression that I do--instead of me suspending judgement until after a thorough inquiry, huh.

That's exactly the impression I'm under, considering that you literally said that me and pisskop both being scum is the only possibility here.

If you want to know what happened, you could try asking instead of insinuating that I'm actively withholding details. After flabort broke Mask's gambit, I went with my gut and offered to protect him for the night because I thought he was telling the truth and liked the cut of his jib.

You're somehow on the defensive, despite me not taking a hostile or interrogative tone, but merely mentioning my viewpoint that I lack seeing how these things connect.

Except that's not what you were doing at all. You claimed that there were details that were lost between the PMs and the thread and details that I just hadn't told anyone. I just want you to ask me about any details you're missing instead of leaving that claim there with nothing to back it up. Taking Overlord into consideration, I can't help but get the feeling that you just enjoy claiming you've put me on the defensive whenever we talk.

Yes, I can see why guarding someone chosen at random would be a better idea than guarding a power role that had been outed early in the day. You also seem to have missed perhaps the most obvious solution to a problem that you're making a lot more convoluted that it actually is; we could just both be town.

...Somehow you aren't getting that I'm thinking the orange part, too, and instead speak as if being defensive?
Or, y'know, ask my viewpoint?

Again, you've already given your viewpoint- that myself and pisskop both being scum is the only possibility in this situation.

...Can you explain how this {blue part} works, given the uncertainty of the person you're guarding?
I mean, you're...aware that mostly everyone is a power-role (unless rarely ever, being a Vanilla Townie, though I don't recall anyone ever being a vanilla townie in any of Meph's games).
Unless you're under the impression that non-PRs are present, maybe?

15 living players in a game, four of them are scum, two of them claim to be town and have revealed their claimed roles. Why would I choose to protect someone other than one of the two who had revealed their roles when both of them are dangerous to the scum team, and of the two, why would I not protect the one I was more inclined to believe was town?

[UXLZ]

Pisskop:

Your actions almost seem to be getting even more erratic today, so I have a few questions I'd like to ask...

Tiruin is up and doing things.  I'm not sure if happy or sad.

What's with the unsure reaction? Are you worried because she seems to be suspecting you/Deus?

I dont have a snowball's chance in hell of being lynched.

Why are you so confident?
Is it because Flabort is dead?

Do you know who TolyK is, yet, by the way?

[Cheeetar]

Cheeetar: I read it after I'd posted the reply to your first post. I tend to just click the post button a lot if I get the new replies warning more than once and read what I missed after getting my replies down when they're still probably relevant.

I trusted that pisskop is town based off his replies and behaviour. If that's not good enough for you, it's really not my problem. As for protecting a claimed vigilante (whose claim I had no reason to trust whatsoever), who behaved just as erratically as you think pisskop did, was open to suggestion on who to kill if he trusted the person, and also trusted you being town because you made a mistake on the number of scum in the game (a mistake Mastahcheese also made), why would he be any higher on my list of who I should protect?

I tend to prefer mechanics based play over trust based play- systems are concrete, but you can never be sure the person you're talking to isn't lying. If you protected Flabort and he claimed a vig target, he was a confirmed vigilante unless somebody else claimed vigilante and the kill, in which case we have two people one of whom we are 100% sure is anti-town somehow. You protected Pisskop because you trusted him. I would've preferred protecting Flabort because regardless of whether or not you trust him, we would've got more information come Day 2 and a much more potentially advantageous position for town.

[Tiruin]

And again. You think we're both scum. Why aren't you voting for either of us?

You're somehow under the impression that I do--instead of me suspending judgement until after a thorough inquiry, huh.

That's exactly the impression I'm under, considering that you literally said that me and pisskop both being scum is the only possibility here.

-.-
Only other possibility--the 50/50 doesn't work, is what I meant. Only other possibility than 'they can both be town'.
...Unless you somehow got that 'THEY CAN ONLY BE SCUM', and not that I could get anything else.
...Which you didn't ask?

If you want to know what happened, you could try asking instead of insinuating that I'm actively withholding details. After flabort broke Mask's gambit, I went with my gut and offered to protect him for the night because I thought he was telling the truth and liked the cut of his jib.

You're somehow on the defensive, despite me not taking a hostile or interrogative tone, but merely mentioning my viewpoint that I lack seeing how these things connect.

Except that's not what you were doing at all. You claimed that there were details that were lost between the PMs and the thread and details that I just hadn't told anyone. I just want you to ask me about any details you're missing instead of leaving that claim there with nothing to back it up. Taking Overlord into consideration, I can't help but get the feeling that you just enjoy claiming you've put me on the defensive whenever we talk.

That's only one other game o_o
Also I didn't fully read up if you ever mentioned why you're revealing your role, in PMs, to certain people.
I get snippets.

Next is why you revealed yourself as the Guardian in the first place. I'm unsure if you stated why, if at all--just that you stated 'I protected pisskop, I'm the Guardian'.

Because Mastahcheese knew about my role. I've already said this.

Oh, AND that I've no idea what PM shenanigans you all did back there. Something something Mastahcheese...something something 4mask Gambit... >_>

All of that is either because I didn't fully read up, or it wasn't mentioned in the thread.

15 living players in a game, four of them are scum, two of them claim to be town and have revealed their claimed roles. Why would I choose to protect someone other than one of the two who had revealed their roles when both of them are dangerous to the scum team, and of the two, why would I not protect the one I was more inclined to believe was town?

...You do realize that the only danger the Reporter could do to the scumteam is act like a watcher to their target, or either track their killer right? In other forms, that means 'Watcher/Tracker hybrid'.

[pisskop]

Pisskop:

Your actions almost seem to be getting even more erratic today, so I have a few questions I'd like to ask...

Tiruin is up and doing things.  I'm not sure if happy or sad.

What's with the unsure reaction? Are you worried because she seems to be suspecting you/Deus?

I dont have a snowball's chance in hell of being lynched.

Why are you so confident?
Is it because Flabort is dead?

Do you know who TolyK is, yet, by the way?

Erractic?  No.  Paranoid/inquisitive/willing to entertain alternatives?  Yes.


AFA Tiruin
  Im not unsure about her.  Im calling her scum still.  Im noting the multiple postings, the nature of her questions, the seeming benign nature of her playstyle.  This also is  just a game.  Tiruin is still Tiruin, even if she's competing with UZ for a length of rope.
  As it sits, if Tiruin is scum, I figure Ive got the other 2 clinched.  If she isnt I have three people in mind too.

  Do you not find her sudden playstyle change discerning?


AFA my own lynch.

  Im confident because I am me.
Flabort was one vote of 16.  Every person in this game statistically has a more powerful vote than Flabort did.
  Despite the mad rush to vote me, there's not going to be a lynch of me today.  Unfortunately the game is currently stagnating, I suspect because of the weekend.


  Why are you asking these questions?  Have you read and understood the game up until this most current post?

[Deus Asmoth]

And again. You think we're both scum. Why aren't you voting for either of us?

You're somehow under the impression that I do--instead of me suspending judgement until after a thorough inquiry, huh.

That's exactly the impression I'm under, considering that you literally said that me and pisskop both being scum is the only possibility here.

-.-
Only other possibility--the 50/50 doesn't work, is what I meant. Only other possibility than 'they can both be town'.
...Unless you somehow got that 'THEY CAN ONLY BE SCUM', and not that I could get anything else.
...Which you didn't ask?

  Deus Asmoth -- Interlinked with pisskop
    pisskop -- Interlinked with Deus. The only possible conclusion is that both are scum (if one is town and the other is not--it'll end in many combinations which won't apply since PISSKOP > Toony, as claimed. Deus > PISSKOP, as claimed.)

The idea that both of us could be town isn't even mentioned by you here, why would I have assumed that you meant people to think that you were considering it?

If you want to know what happened, you could try asking instead of insinuating that I'm actively withholding details. After flabort broke Mask's gambit, I went with my gut and offered to protect him for the night because I thought he was telling the truth and liked the cut of his jib.

You're somehow on the defensive, despite me not taking a hostile or interrogative tone, but merely mentioning my viewpoint that I lack seeing how these things connect.

Except that's not what you were doing at all. You claimed that there were details that were lost between the PMs and the thread and details that I just hadn't told anyone. I just want you to ask me about any details you're missing instead of leaving that claim there with nothing Also I didn't fully read up if you ever mentioned why you're revealing your role, in PMs, to certain people.
I get snippets.

Mask revealed his claimed role to me, cheese and flabort. Flabort revealed his claim to the entire game. I figured that this would result in Mask getting night killed, so I told him my role and asked him if he was telling the truth and his real gambit wasn't to try ensure a night kill on himself because of being a veteran or something. After some of pisskop's behaviour during the day made me more uneasy about the arrangement, I told NQT and cheese what was going on so that if I got night killed they'd know pisskop likely had something to do with it. Then cheese turned out to be scum so I had no reason not to reveal my role to the rest of the town when there was a reason to. That's eveything, I think.

15 living players in a game, four of them are scum, two of them claim to be town and have revealed their claimed roles. Why would I choose to protect someone other than one of the two who had revealed their roles when both of them are dangerous to the scum team, and of the two, why would I not protect the one I was more inclined to believe was town?

...You do realize that the only danger the Reporter could do to the scumteam is act like a watcher to their target, or either track their killer right? In other forms, that means 'Watcher/Tracker hybrid'.

Why would that make them any less likely to kill a reporter if they knew who it was?

[Tiruin]

. . .
o_O
Oh.
...That post was a previous copy.

...Ahhh great. My bad for doing multiple tabs given the network here. That should include the duality of the situation given the context.

[UXLZ]

Erractic?  No.  Paranoid/inquisitive/willing to entertain alternatives?  Yes.

So what you're saying is that you're looking for someone who'll agree with you, or looking to find someone to agree with?

AFA Tiruin
  Im not unsure about her.  Im calling her scum still.  Im noting the multiple postings, the nature of her questions, the seeming benign nature of her playstyle.  This also is  just a game.  Tiruin is still Tiruin, even if she's competing with UZ for a length of rope.
  As it sits, if Tiruin is scum, I figure Ive got the other 2 clinched.  If she isnt I have three people in mind too.

  Do you not find her sudden playstyle change discerning?

I was referring to this.

I'm not sure if happy or sad.

Tiruin being up and doing things is always a good thing, unless you're looking for easy lynch targets.

Care to reveal who those others are, and why?
You don't have to go too deep in analysis, just a very quick summary would be fine to know you aren't completely pulling it out of thin air.

AFA my own lynch.

  Im confident because I am me.
Flabort was one vote of 16.  Every person in this game statistically has a more powerful vote than Flabort did.
  Despite the mad rush to vote me, there's not going to be a lynch of me today.  Unfortunately the game is currently stagnating, I suspect because of the weekend.

Yes, but Flabort was probably the person who suspected you most strongly, and was the biggest advocate for your death.
The game isn't really stagnating all that much. One of our lurkers (Tiruin) has decided to start doing stuff, so that's certainly a good sign.
Also, I wouldn't be so sure about your safety. NQT is looking like he's going to be doing something quite large, so we'll see at that point what happens.

  Why are you asking these questions?  Have you read and understood the game up until this most current post?

Because they seemed like fairly important questions to ask.
I've read most of it, though I'm ignoring the back-and-forth between DA and Tiruin for now.

[Persus13]

Deus Asmoth:

Cheeetar:

I'm having trouble parsing what you're claiming, Deus Asmoth.
First of all: I was never 100% certain that Flabort was town, and saying that is mischaracterising me to the extreme. I would have been had I died, because he wouldn't've told me he was planning to kill ToonyMan if he was planning on killing me. I made this clear before.

Hey. If I die in the night, quote this for the thread? I'm sending this to you because I think you're less likely to be mafia. I've sent this separately to 3 other people, and I'm going to send a list of the people I sent this PM to to one other person, so don't think about not quoting it. Cheers!

Flabort isn't mafia.

Yes, I can see how it's totally misrepresenting the opinions you presented if I say that you were certain that flabort wasn't scum.

This is semantics. Is Cheeetar scum based on how certain he was of flabort being town?

Secondly: Did you really want to be going out of your way to prevent Flabort from making a kill and proving his claim of vigilante? You're aware that the reason many wanted him to survive the night was for him to be able to prove his roleclaim, and that protecting the person he was going to kill would be minimising town's information?

So it's worth letting an investigative role on the town's side get killed when I can do something to prevent it so that we can make sure that another player is a vigilante- and not necessarily one on our side? That's an odd way of looking at it, unless you're trying to get the town killed off for some reason.

You're acting as if pisskop's role was confirmed, while flabort's wasn't. This isn't true. What is true is that a vigilante claim is easily verified, Easier than a reporter claim.

Fourth: The 'corpse' if you had protected Flabort would've been ToonyMan's, the one with the bullet in it. We know from flavour he was targeted by a human as well as a doppelganger, and I would've been more than able to back up Flabort's claim that he planned on killing ToonyMan. Given that Mastahcheese would still be dead at Toony's house, and revealed as a doppelganger, we would have a confirmed human vigilante.

No, we would have had a confirmed vigilante that could be a human or a doppelganger. There's a pretty major difference there. And by the by, I can back up pisskop's claim that he was going to investigate Tooney.

As opposed to a not completely confirmed reporter who could be human or dopp?

Yes, I can see why guarding someone chosen at random would be a better idea than guarding a power role that had been outed early in the day. You also seem to have missed perhaps the most obvious solution to a problem that you're making a lot more convoluted that it actually is; we could just both be town.

...Somehow you aren't getting that I'm thinking the orange part, too, and instead speak as if being defensive?
Or, y'know, ask my viewpoint?

Again, you've already given your viewpoint- that myself and pisskop both being scum is the only possibility in this situation.

I think you're overthinking this. I think Tiruin's saying that both of you being scum is the only possibility out of at least one of the two of you being scum. Yes, she didn't say that last bit, but there's no indication that she did mean both of you are scum.


Cheeetar: Your link in the beggining #677 is broken.

My theory of Pisskop being protected from ToonyMan at the time was that Pisskop was the one performing the scum kill. I'm sorry this wasn't evident.

Except MC was mentioned as the person performing the scumkill and otherwise had no reason to visit Toony. Unless you've already rejected this theory.

Still feeling the urge to lynch Pisskop to find out Deus Asmoth's alignment. Will attempt to ignore it. DA: Did you read the post after the one you replied to at all? Perhaps it will illuminate my current attitude and approach.

Don't waste the lynch that way, hopefully the night will give us some answers.

pisskop:

Flabort was one vote of 16.  Every person in this game statistically has a more powerful vote than Flabort did.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.