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[Cheeetar]

Didn't Tiruin claim that she investigated Toaster and he came up as Survivor? Assuming she is telling the truth (even a scum telepath would benefit from revealing a survivor), then that would make Toaster the third party.

Telepath results are Find, Kill, and Survive. Toaster came up as Survive, which numerous roles have as a goal as listed in the OP.

Telepath is kind of weird. It tells you what action the target took, not what role they have. If a guardian does nothing, they get listed as survive instead of protect. Doppelgangers only get 'kill' if they're performing a kill that night.

[UXLZ]

Didn't Tiruin claim that she investigated Toaster and he came up as Survivor? Assuming she is telling the truth (even a scum telepath would benefit from revealing a survivor), then that would make Toaster the third party.

Telepath results are Find, Kill, and Survive. Toaster came up as Survive, which numerous roles have as a goal as listed in the OP.

Telepath is kind of weird. It tells you what action the target took, not what role they have. If a guardian does nothing, they get listed as survive instead of protect. Doppelgangers only get 'kill' if they're performing a kill that night.

You sure about that, Cheeetar? Guess we may as well get Meph in here to clarify the way Telepath works.

Also, more stuff from NQT.

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

NQT's Grand Active Scum Theory

Scum want everyone doing something productive each night. Mastahcheese had a role which would have helped scum but they decided to use him to perform the kill. This implies that all scum have active night roles. This means scum is three of Jim, Persus, Deus, Tiruin, Shakerag or ZU. The debatable one is Shakerag (who's night action may or may not be considered active enough to be productive).

Let's rule out Persus as being on the same team as Tiruin (i.e. he wasn't bussing her). Let's also say that Deus is confirmed town: it'd be insane for a scum guardian not to be protecting the killer in a game with war vets. Let's also say that if ZU is scum, Shakerag must be (as he appeared D1 to be trying to save Shakes from the vig). Further, if Shakerag is scum, then Tiruin is scum as he clearly tried to save her by cementing the Pisskop lynch here. So if Shakerag's role is considered active, then the only scum teams possible are:

Jim, Shakerag, Tiruin
Shakerag, Tiruin, ZU

HOWEVER, if Shakerag's role is considered inactive (i.e. not worth doing instead of the scum kill), AND I'm wrong about ZU trying to save Shakerag, then the teams can only be:

Jim, Persus, ZU
Jim, Tiruin, ZU

Basically, I need to investigate interactions a bit closer. Will have more soon.

[UXLZ]

Bleh, he sends me another PM right as I post.

[spoiler=NQT]Personally, I'm erring on Jim, Persus, ZU as the team and me being wrong about ZU wanting to save Shakerag (the scum team just wanting the loose cannon vigilante dead as soon as possible). Look at how Persus is treating Deus right now. But really I need to do more work before I can be half-way confident about any of this.
[/quote]

[Mephansteras]

Cheeetar has it correct.

[UXLZ]

Scripten: You said you're a war vet, right? Did you have your guns up or down last night? Did anyone here visit Scripten?

[Scripten]

Scripten: You said you're a war vet, right? Did you have your guns up or down last night? Did anyone here visit Scripten?

My guns were up last night. Jim tried to visit me but was blocked, if I am not mistaken.

(NQT: Btw, sorry for lying to you in PM. I wasn't -entirely- sure you were town, so I decided to give you mixed messages in case you were relaying my messages to the scumteam. >.> )

Telepath is kind of weird. It tells you what action the target took, not what role they have. If a guardian does nothing, they get listed as survive instead of protect. Doppelgangers only get 'kill' if they're performing a kill that night.

Oh, you are right. Nevermind me then.

[Jim Groovester]

Alright, so here we are.

The claims are as follows:

Living Players:

Cheeetar - Enchanter
Jim Groovester - Reporter - Followed mastahcheese N1, mastahcheese visited ToonyMan, followed Scripten N2 but was blocked
Persus13 - Heroic Guard - Protected Scripten N1, Protected Deus Asmoth N2
Shakerag - Intelligence Scientist - Put Tracking Devices on UXLZ and notquitethere on Day 1, NQT and UXLZ went nowhere on N1, NQT and UXLZ went nowhere on N2, Should have another tracking device available
Deus Asmoth - Guardian - Successfully guarded pisskop N1, guarded Shakerag N2
UXLZ - Medium
Scripten - War Vet - Blocked N1
Tiruin - Telepath - Survive on Toaster N1, ???????? on ?????????? N2
zombie urist - Psychic Warden - Blocked Scripten N1, Blocked Jim Groovester N2
Toaster - Enchanter

Dead Players:

notquitethere - Dead Town Telepath, Find on Jim N1, Protect on Persus13 N2, Killed on N2
pisskop - Dead Town Reporter - Followed ToonyMan N1, ToonyMan went nowhere, Lynched on D2
TheDarkStar - Dead Alien Spore Spreader (Infestor) - Lynched on D1
mastahcheese - Dead Doppelganger Observant Guard - Killed Toonyman N1, Died N1
ToonyMan - Dead Town War Vet - Killed flabort and mastahcheese N1, Killed on N1
flabort - Dead Town Vigilante - Killed ToonyMan N1, Died on N1

Is this accurate?

zombie urist hasn't claimed yet but we know from the process of elimination that he's a Psychic Warden and who his targets were. So, zombie urist, why those targets?

[Tiruin]

PFP because somehow the text loves being deleted in giant walls of text.

Which of your reads am I ignoring, exactly? And you weren't unable to post for all of day 2, you even replied immediately after the post that I just quoted.

I was unable to post in regards to pisskop and the end-lynch during D2.
Unlike many people, we don't even have mobile ways to post because of the very slow net here.
*Tiruin glares at that one icon next to your post up there.
I never said I'm unable to post for the entirety of D2.

Worth mentioning: Neither of the enchanters are actually confirmed enchanters. There's no point where the double vote would have actually made a difference, Cheeetar could have just been bluffing originally.

...Yes there is. At the end of the day. One vote +1 appended vote.
You have a very bad habit of going into extremes to discard ideas.

I'll post NQT's role list once I have access to the deadchat later tonight. Either that or he can PM it to me if he feels like it, but as far as I remember, everything adds up. May as well ask Tiruin to post her N2 investigation, even though they're practically pointless unless the person she investigates does the night kill.

Yeah, right :v
What's your idea about what I did N2, hmm? Practically pointless, why?
You keep on giving out declarative statements without explaining why these things occur that way to you. That's inasmuch saying NQT is practically pointless because we share the same role.

But you listen to him, a lot. Including a trove of information which would be explicitly damning in the hands of a scum Medium.
Tell me, UXLZ, how did the deadchat find you as town or trustworthy enough to spiel the data?

[Cheeetar]

People who can't have performed the night kill: Jim Groovester blocked by ZU, ZU blocked Jim Groovester, Tiruin investigated somebody, Shakerag built his devices and is going to plant one today and tell us his results tomorrow or else he's scum.
People who could have performed the night kill: Persus13, Deus Asmoth, UXLZ, Scripten, Toaster, Cheeetar

Is this accurate? This is assuming, of course, that Jim and ZU aren't covering for each other.

[Cheeetar]

Oh. UXLZ probably couldn't've done it because Shakerag has a tracker on him (unless they're on the same scumteam.)

[UXLZ]

Yeah, right :v
What's your idea about what I did N2, hmm? Practically pointless, why?
You keep on giving out declarative statements without explaining why these things occur that way to you. That's inasmuch saying NQT is practically pointless because we share the same role.

Practically pointless unless you targeted a scum player doing the night kill (of which you had a 1/10 chance?) since everyone is role claiming today (and Telepaths primarily find role-related information, or alignment indicative stuff if they get lucky.)

You keep on giving out declarative statements without explaining why these things occur that way to you. That's inasmuch saying NQT is practically pointless because we share the same role.

The explanations seemed unnecessary, though in the case of the Enchanters I think it's more that you misunderstood the explanation, rather than it not actually being there.
The big difference between you and NQT is that NQT is Confirmed Town. Also, his role ability would be almost (not 100%) useless at this point as well. (Though I am working under the assumption that no one has fake claimed, at least not anything which a Telepath could verify as false.)

But you listen to him, a lot. Including a trove of information which would be explicitly damning in the hands of a scum Medium.

Damning in what way, exactly? Are you trying to say that I'm scum because dead people have told me things, or that I'm scum because I'm listening to NQT, or...?
I'm not sure if it's your way of talking, but I'm quite confused here.

Tell me, UXLZ, how did the deadchat find you as town or trustworthy enough to spiel the data?

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

In reply to Tiruin and Cheetar:

Tiruin

Tell me, UXLZ, how did the deadchat find you as town or trustworthy enough to spiel the data?

UXLZ helped save Flabort from the lynch; he's been reliably relaying my messages, he has a passive role but didn't perform the N1 kill, if I don't tell UXLZ things then I'll have no more impact on the game.

Out of interest Tiruin, what do you think of Shakerag, ZU and Jim? If you could rank them in order of scumminess how would they go?


Cheetar, you're ignoring the possibility of Jim & ZU (guess he missed that part of your post) being on the same team, or Tiruin and her alleged N2 target being on the same team.

Not sure about the others since I can't access the deadchat at the moment.

Also,

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

Cheetar, Persus most likely didn't perform the kill as he came up Protect when I investigated him.

[Persus13]

UXLZ/NQT: Did you answer my question where I voted you about why you switched to pisskop at the end of Day 2? Last Paranormal there was only one third-party role. It did have fewer players though.

Scripten: War Vet (or something functionally equivalent)

So ZU roleblocking Scripten saved my life?

Persus said he has a useless role, but he was protecting someone last night:

That's because Heroic Guard is one of the most useless town roles in the game, there's no question about it being the worst proc role in the game, and a town player dies whether or not the protect was successful. At least Observant and Vengeful give information to the one who was going to be killed.

Spoiler: My PMed reads (click to show/hide)

Also, these were Persus' reads he sent me and Deus:

I have a hunch I might die in the night, so if I do, here's a list of reads I'd like to be posted in the thread (and in case I don't die, it will be good for y'all to have something to compare me to). I picked you two because I'm about 99.9% confident DA is town and NQT, I know you like data, so you're backup incase both of us manage to die, get abducted, whatever.

This is in order from most scummy to least scummy
Scum
Cheeetar-He was already voting Pisskop when Cheese joined him in voting Pisskop. Since then has pretty much exclusively focused on pisskop. Pisskop was certainly scummy, but he was still a reporter, and I'm pretty certain scum took advantage of his scumminess to lynch him before he could get onto him. Cheeetar arguing that pisskop was essentially useless because we couldn't be certain about his reporting is something that struck me as really odd, because it seemed he was already convinced pisskop was scum and there could be no other possibility.
Tiruin-Needs to make posts instead of excuses, although I suspect I know her role, and if I'm right on that front I don't know whether she'd go down further on this list. I'm also wondering if her bad internet ate a large post and sapped her interest in the game.
UXLZ-Switched his vote to pisskop late in the day, and cheese sad he found him odd in his list of reads. Admittedly not much to go on, but perhaps cheese was trying to distance himself from UXLZ. Not much besides WIFOM found here.
Shakerag- Still pretty suspicious of him, although the inteliigent scientist claim sounds legit. The problem with NQT's plan is that he could be night killing and then claim he put the tracker on a scumbuddy of his and then just report his buddy's actions.
Toaster- null, I got nothing besides the fact that I've barely seen him.
ZU-Gut says he could be scum. Reading through his play caused me to disagree about that. mildly leaning town on him for now.
Scripten- I think he's fairly town, although his interactions with cheese are slightly worrying.
NQT-I've agreed with him on most stuff so far, so I think he's town, I'm just being nervous because he might be using the optimal lynch stuff as a bind to avoid lynching someone. The whole indecisiveness about pisskop is something I'm not sure is scummy or town to do.
Jim-He's playing very well. I think he's town, or just very very good scum.
Deus Asmoth- Town, not much else to say about this.
Persus13- I know I'm town, and so will you probably if this sees the light of day.

If I die in the night, best of luck catching the scumteam, and I hope my reads help out in some way. If I don't, well then, I'll be able to post these myself tomorrow.

Thanks for posting these, gives me more time to work on new ones.

Mastahcheese had a role which would have helped scum but they decided to use him to perform the kill.

Observant Guard isn't that helpful to scum as the only reason it would be helpful is guarding another scum player, and I could only imagine that going down somewhat like this: Vig targets dopp player, cheese guards dopp player, cheese dies, scum know who vig is. Vig claims, gets original target lynched, scum kill vig (assuming vig isn't protected) but not before vig kills another player. In addition, considering the fact that scum already knew there was a reporter in the game, they might have had roles stay at home in order to avoid being spotted going somewhere when they're role didn't need them to.

Bleh, he sends me another PM right as I post.

[spoiler=NQT]Personally, I'm erring on Jim, Persus, ZU as the team and me being wrong about ZU wanting to save Shakerag (the scum team just wanting the loose cannon vigilante dead as soon as possible). Look at how Persus is treating Deus right now. But really I need to do more work before I can be half-way confident about any of this.

[/quote]
What about you UXLZ? Stop being the messenger and tell us what you think.

Also, what do you mean how am I treating Deus Asmoth right now?

Jim:

Should we begin a massclaim?

I think so.

I am a Reporter.

N1 I followed mastahcheese because of his bandwagoning. He visited ToonyMan, as we already know.
N2 I followed Scripten because I had a lingering suspicion of him after pisskop's flip. However, I was blocked by a Psychic Warden.

Is this one reason you were so suspicious of pisskop?

Scripten:

Persus13:

I wasn't asking you about your opinion on UXLZ's vote. This post really strikes me as odd.

What's your point? I can't comment on things you aren't specifically asking me about?

You were defending UXLZ for an action he took yesterday before giving him a chance to speak. Unless you are UXLZ, you probably don't know why he switched to pisskop, or at least all the reasons why he did so. He may have been suspicious of pisskop leading up to day end, but his switch didn't really have reasons attached besides pisskop not voting Tiruin if I remember correctly.

Scum already probably have a list of priority players to kill. DA has already claimed Guardian and no one is suspicious of Jim.

Jim has had several people suspicious of him throughout the game, IIRC.

Examples please (aside form NQT right now)

Cheeetar:

I'm a Heroic Guard, I protected Scripten N1, and Deus Asmoth N2.

Sure. Why?

I saw Scripten as town after D1 and Deus Asmoth is a good role and is almost guaranteed town.

To get town credit with... the person who could otherwise be dead? It's just such shockingly poor play. I'm not willing to believe DA is that bad at Mafia. Honestly, I'm not sure why you're so confident that DA could be scum. Why do you think there's doubt here, other than 'it is technically possible for him to have been brain dead in selecting his actions'?

I don't like saying DA isn't confirmed town because it shuts out the possibility of him being scum, when there is still a remote chance he might be. I like keeping options open because otherwise I'm operating with blinkered vision, and I don't like that for myself or to be playing with other people. I'll agree that it is a very remote chance, but still, there's a chance. You also ignored the point I made that in this game "Dead men tell no tales" isn't true, as the Medium role is a possibility and in fact is in this game, as you should know.

pisskop was also a highly distracting figure that caused us to focus on him the majority of the past two days. Keeping him alive would have benefitted scum as it distracted from finding scum.

I don't want you to take away the fact that I somehow think DA is scum. I did PM him a list of reads in case I died last night because I trusted him to deliver them. However, Confirmed town should only be bestowed on people who are actually worthy of that title.

[Tiruin]

But you listen to him, a lot. Including a trove of information which would be explicitly damning in the hands of a scum Medium.

Damning in what way, exactly? Are you trying to say that I'm scum because dead people have told me things, or that I'm scum because I'm listening to NQT, or...?
I'm not sure if it's your way of talking, but I'm quite confused here.

Eh? I was merely pointing out that a scum medium has access to another source of information, and damning to the town because of that added information.
It'd be silly if I said you're scum because dead people talk to you.

UXLZ helped save Flabort from the lynch; he's been reliably relaying my messages, he has a passive role but didn't perform the N1 kill, if I don't tell UXLZ things then I'll have no more impact on the game.

Out of interest Tiruin, what do you think of Shakerag, ZU and Jim? If you could rank them in order of scumminess how would they go?

...Yeah, Saving someone from the lynch does not necessarily equal town. He didn't perform the N1 kill because its obvious Mastahcheese did it (see: Toony's corpse again. Claw marks. Direct evidence.)
Also I never said 'don't tell him things', but what I am saying is 'How do y'all dead guys find him as trustworthy, or rather towny enough'? I'm leaning towards trusting UXLZ, but his attitude is... >:I

On the reads, I'm reconstructing that big post, but then all these Loading tabs = frustration, especially since I closed them after getting the relevant quote/link and then the post got wiped and now I'm doing it again. Gah.

But I'm awaiting ZU's claim so we can tidy this massclaim up.

[zombie urist]

I'm a psychic warden. N1 I blocked Scripten because I found him suspicious for reasons I posted D1 and N2 I blocked Jim.

Jim's D2 list of reads is pretty bad.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

pisskop - Everything pisskop does makes me want to vote him, but by virtue of night actions he maybe isn't scum, maybe? I'm starting to feel like lynching him for being distracting would be a legitimately good idea, and this may be the first time I've actually thought that way.
zombie urist - zombie urist is just kind of there. You make some good points about his voting at the end of Day 1.
Tiruin - I don't have any strong opinion of my own about Tiruin, but I agree with your points that she's been entirely contentless all game long.
Shakerag - Lurking.
Toaster - Also lurking.
UXLZ - Eh
Scripten - Meh
Deus Asmoth - Bleh
Persus13 - Doesn't post frequently but does have good content when he does post.
notquitethere - I'm inclined to think you're town, based on how you were willing to urge people against a flabort lynch on Day 1.
Cheeetar - Cheeetar has been aggressive. He's kind of a hardass sometimes.
Jim Groovester - Of course I'm town.

Basically everyone is "meh" or "lurking". Also Jim said I was kinda scummy without any evidence or basically any prior suspicions.

These D1 reads aren't great either.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Probably TheDarkStar for his crummy flabort vote. His reasons mostly echo what other people have said about flabort, but it all seems really weak to me. But it's 8 AM and I haven't slept and I'd like to look through the game once more and get everything straight before casting a vote.
Mostly I think flabort and 4maskwolf/pisskop are bad rather than scummy and it's unfortunate that so much of the game so far has been spent discussing them.
Based on flabort's response, it seems like he thought there would be a whirlwind of PMs flying around this game, and talking about it sideways like he did wouldn't seem out of the ordinary since he thought everybody would be doing the same, when in actuality that was not remotely the case. There are some nagging doubts about flabort now that I think about them, like why he wanted to poke a hole in 4maskwolf's gambit, but it's 8 AM (pushing 9 AM now) and I'll look at them closer later.
4maskwolf's gambit seems more like PWV bait than what he actually claimed it was for. If 4maskwolf did the gambit exactly as he said then it was bad and wouldn't have worked but I don't really see it being all that scummy. pisskop isn't doing his slot any favors but he seems newish so I don't know what to make of him.
I don't really have an opinion on anybody else.

Jim was right about TDS, but TDS was 3rd party so it doesn't really mean Jim is town. The rest are just discussing the Flabort/4mask thingy. Also note here that Jim said Pisskop was being new-ish and then in D2 basically pushed for his lynch.

I browsed through your linked posts and found nothing that said "HEY LOOK HE'S DOING THAT THING HE DID AS SCUM" but I'm not an expert on your meta and your posts don't look outrageously out of the ordinary anyway, so it ultimately tells me nothing.
Further, this is the wrong meta argument. The proper meta argument would have been 'I am occasionally known to compliment players' playstyles as both scum and town and here are instances where that happens.' Instead you present me 'Here's me interacting with a scumbuddy and adequately handling his pressure.'
If anything, you complimenting your voter's playstyle is outside your meta as you've presented it to me, which is even more interesting and even more worth pursuing especially given mastahcheese's alignment.
Citing your meta doesn't significantly sway me one way or the other.

Unvote. Congratulations, you have successfully appealed to your meta.

This backpedalling is pretty hilarious. How did Scripten successfully appeal to his meta?

[zombie urist]

I'm not done yet accidentally posted instead of preview.