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[SyrusLD]

Since v.40 I feel like either armor does protect much less, or that bogeyman have become much harder to fight.
A lot of their hits just went past the (steel) armor as if I were not wearing any. Rarely I'd get a "deflected by ..." or "punched through ...".
Even legendary-skilled dwarves could die in few hits, mostly due to instantly ending up with a broken bone - even though they were wearing full, decent quality, armor and were only getting punched at. If I were wearing Leather "clothes" as well I'd often get punched through that, though.
Only a shield would help increase the survival odds - if you had none, better start digging your grave.

On the other hand, once I started wearing adamantine clothing (handcrafted via advfort), bogeyman suddenly couldn't hurt me: the attacks glanced away from the adamantine clothing all the time, even without a shield I easily slaughtered them all without a scratch or a bruise for that matter. (Again, this dwarf already got legendary skill in armor, dodging and shield though.)

So, I don't understand why (metal) clothes protect so much better than armor does. Why is armor so often ignored by the attackers?

[pisskop]

or that bogeyman have become much harder to fight.

Their agility is super-high, they sprint after you in numbers, have horn, and can now multi-attack and fly/climb/jump.  Bogeymen are naturally skilled in combat, and as nught creatures don't feel pain, age, get exhausted, or need to breathe.
  They are also numberless, so you can never really beat them.

AFA armor.  It only helps so much, as it always has against them.

  -Sleep in trees or by rivers, and run up/over them.  Sleep with companions or inside caves.  fight them with as much speed as possible, and remember they don't come out every night.

[SyrusLD]

Bogeymen are just an example enemy actually - one that uses a lot of attacks one would suspect not to be able to penetrate armor -, the main question is why armor is so "ineffective", especially compared to "armored" clothing. Sorry, if I did not make this clear enough.

[pisskop]

Bogeymen are just an example enemy actually - one that uses a lot of attacks one would suspect not to be able to penetrate armor -, the main question is why armor is so "ineffective", especially compared to "armored" clothing. Sorry, if I did not make this clear enough.

I've never used armored clothing, but I bet it has something to do with being made out of adamantine.  Id compare mail shirts and legging to addi cloth.

Bogeymen:  why would they be an example of an 'ineffective' attacker?  Because they have such a small body mass?  They're made of shadows, and have the full force of their attacks.  Its my theory that they aren't the size of their small 'body size', and that their small body_size represents mass for the purpose of force calculations.

[Max™]

Hmmm, Urist McLegendary was a bogeywrecking machine, but he was a literally legendary everything superdorf who migrated to a fort and somehow had armoks_blessing active before I used it, by the time I stole him from the fortress to adventure with he was wearing full artifact steel and an artifact platinum war hammer. The fights were them getting in range, him smashing them in the head or body, whichever target option was green, and them flying through the air until they bashed into something and died.

Takes a lot of grinding or flat out hacking to do that (or weird glitched migrants, had several more show up like that afterwards, named em all [something dorfy] McLegendary, decided they were dwarven child care escapees and family) but it isn't an armor problem because the same gear will let you tank a colossus or hydra longer than you can bogeys, they're just jerks.

[Bloax]

In DF2014 you can just retire your dwarf (and it must be a dwarf) adventurer and have them be completely normal dwarves of your fortress once you unretire the fortress.

Except you know, way the hell stronger than any ordinary dwarf if you're a proper adventurer.

[Max™]

Yup, when I brought him home, McLegendary, no longer the duke, only champion, was chilling on a coffin in the main bedroom... guess that's as safe a place as any for a vampire supersoldier with around 200 kills under his belt, 100+ of them being bogies since I didn't stop to sleep after he became a vamp, let em come if they want... though getting past the magma was difficult, as I stole him during an accidentally too large magma flood, had to dig him out with advfort and do the same to get back in.

[That Wolf]

On a related note, does any metal clothing become tattered like cloth, jute etc?
Is this the same for Divine clothing?
never had either and would feel satisfied to know

[Max™]

I think the candy clothing wear bug was fixed, I assume divine stuff is the same way.

[SyrusLD]

On a related note, does any metal clothing become tattered like cloth, jute etc?
Is this the same for Divine clothing?
never had either and would feel satisfied to know

Playing in v.40.23, I wore through one whole set of that metal clothing already and my second set already got an "x" on it. Good advice is to not wear it while extracting strands... I also noticed I can wear cloth around my hands - wonder if that protects anything, but that cloth doesn't appear to suffer wear.

So, unless the bug was fixed in the lattest update, it still is around sadly.

Still quite impressive how much the metal clothing protects you.

[Max™]

You can go in with gm-editor and change the "armor level" tag from 0 to 1 and it stops wearing.

[endlessblaze]

speaking of divine materials I started a thread on them in general discussion for science. putting it there made the most sense to me. I started to want to learn more about the divine metals when I found a listing in one of my genned worlds called dark metal.

even cooler, my test in arena mode showed that fabric made from it is called "liquid darkness"

this is relevant to the OT just hang on....
well I spawned a liquid darkness cape and when fighting I think I saw it deflect a few dark metal swords and hammers. I can test it without any armor and just cloths of divine metal.

(liquid darkness cape....just so awesome...I would totally ware that IRL, forget the odd looks, its a cape made of metal fabric....like darkness flowing behind me.....)


edit- one more thing

im not entirely sure about divine and adamantine cloth wearing out , and I cant claim to know what toady intended, but I would guess that if it does wear down it would be a glitch because

1. the fact its made of metal that makes some of the best armor in the game means it makes all the less sense when cloth made of it wears down. (the fact its both cloth and metal is an exactable break from reality but when it wears it starts to drift to the edge)

2. for such a rare metal to be made into cloth instead of swords (witch it is insanely good for, the best actually) and into incredible armor as well, seems to indicate to me too things,

A. that the cloth is meant as bragging rights (hahah hay guys look at all this addy cloth! I got enough to make socks for these guys instead of pouring It into the military)

and/or

B. that the cloth while expensive and perhaps in some ways wasteful is actually meant to have value in that its meant to not ever wear down, preventing the hassle of giving everybody something to put on when they need new things, keeping them from getting deadly forgotten beast extract on there body because something is in tatters or gone leavening them exposed, or keeping tem from tantruming.



edit again-

ok my mistake liquid darkness cloth is not made from dark metal but im still quite positive its a divine cloth, im nit sure about the metal Its made from (assuming divine clot is always made from divine metal...can we get confirmation on that)

now then....in my test...the battles were 1on1

all test subjects were arena humans, all test subjects participated in only one battle to prevent unbalanced battles from previous injuries.
all subjects were given the skills

proficient swordsman
competent dodger
competent armor user
skilled observer
skilled discipline
-----------------------------------------
all subjects given
liquid darkness cape
liquid darkness tunic
liquid darkness trousers
liquid darkness hood
liquid darkness shoes (2)
liquid darkness gloves(2)

-----------------------------------------
first test-dark metal short sword
I took control of the first battle
results---I died minimal injures to opponent
-----------------------------------------
second battle-dark metal short sword
combat left to the npcs
results---cut through with ease
------------------------------------
third battle-steel short sword
combat left to npc
results---cut through with ease
-----------------------------------

the results for iron and copper mirror the above test.

testing will soon commence with adamantine clothing

 

[SyrusLD]

You can go in with gm-editor and change the "armor level" tag from 0 to 1 and it stops wearing.

That sadly resets after saving and loading. Any way to make metal clothing permanently not suffer wear damage?
EDIT: Nevermind, I just changed the clothing to have the armor_level set to 1 in the raws. Since I only play an adventurer in this world and don't wear non-metal clothing anymore, it doesn't matter much anyway. Still would prefer if it was like this normally - or at least wearing at only like a tenth of the rate.

Besides that, still have to get anywhere close to that warm place underneath. Haven't dug down very far yet and I'm still armoring up with the best of the best.

[Bumber]

That sadly resets after saving and loading. Any way to make metal clothing permanently not suffer wear damage?

Code: (dfhack) [Select]

tweak adamantine-cloth-wearIt should be in dfhack.init. Just uncomment the line.