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Author Topic: More varied material TYPE preferences.  (Read 1185 times)

SixOfSpades

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More varied material TYPE preferences.
« on: January 15, 2015, 12:43:57 am »

Personally, I like wood. I don't really care (or usually even know) what kind of wood it is, I just like the smell & feel of it, I like working with it. Dwarves have no such broad preferences--they don't like wood, they only like one specific wood. And one type of stone. And one gem. And one kind of metal, one bone, one leather, one cloth material, etc.

I propose a slight alteration: Instead of picking just one item from each list, have the RNG pick a handful of things from any list. You might get a dwarf that doesn't really like any kind of metal, but appreciates 3 different kinds of stone. Or another who likes 2 types of bones & a hoof. These dwarves would have preferences for general types of material, and the game engine should grant them bonuses accordingly: For every preference for a specific material that falls under category X, that dwarf gets a bonus (to quality & perhaps speed) when working with any material from category X. This bonus is equal to 20% of the regular bonus when working with a preferred material. Thus, a dwarf who has preferences for willow wood, mango wood, hazel wood, acacia wood, & cedar wood can go craft a bed out of ANY kind of wood at all, and still enjoy the same chance of creating a masterwork as if they were working with one of their actual preferred materials. (Should this bonus be allowed to go beyond 100%, if the dwarf likes 5 kinds of stone and is actually working with 1 of those 5? What about when the dwarf happens to have 6 or more preferences for the same material category? I haven't formed an opinion yet.)

This would tend to give dwarves a predisposition towards becoming a Mason, or Smith, Bone Carver, Clothier, etc., which seems a likely benefit as it opens up a new way for migrants to be useful.
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Taking this idea a bit further, the RNG could use the material preferences as a basis for the item preferences: The more a dwarf likes materials of category X, the more likely they are to enjoy types of items that can be made out of category X.

When randomly assigning preferences, dwarfy materials like stone, gems, and metals should be weighted more heavily than non-dwarfy things like wood and cloth, so that all the newly-added types of plants don't cause an overabundance of budding Weavers & Carpenters.

As a side note, dwarves should probably be able to like particular cuts of faceted gemstone, now that that's a thing. (Liking a jewel cut would have much the same effects as liking a type of gemstone, as far as becoming a Jeweler is concerned.)
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Vattic

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 07:08:37 am »

Nice ideas. There was discussion of similar for animal preferences so a dwarf could like primates or spiders generally rather than specific species. It was related to the Ark Project, not sure if a suggestion was made.

I would like to see dwarves born with no detailed preferences and to have them form based on experience of different creatures, food, materials. Then you wouldn't have a dwarf preferring something they don't even know exists. It could be based on the civs knowledge for generated creatures, but ideally be more regional than that. This would help against mandates for items made of inaccessible materials. It might mean preferences are linked to events leaving room for story telling (likes a stone common in the mountain home of their childhood etc.). Also a dwarf could develop more detailed preferences over time and especially so for craftsdwarves working certain materials.
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LordBaal

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 08:26:39 am »

I would like to see dwarves born with no detailed preferences and to have them form based on experience of different creatures, food, materials. Then you wouldn't have a dwarf preferring something they don't even know exists. It could be based on the civs knowledge for generated creatures, but ideally be more regional than that. This would help against mandates for items made of inaccessible materials. It might mean preferences are linked to events leaving room for story telling (likes a stone common in the mountain home of their childhood etc.). Also a dwarf could develop more detailed preferences over time and especially so for craftsdwarves working certain materials.
This, so very much.

Also, it's far more logical to start with broader categories, like stone, metal and bone like the op suggests.
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Badger Storm

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 08:30:26 am »

I second both of these ideas.  As someone who tries to give every migrant a job to do, it's annoying to see that Urist McWaxworker's only real preferences are wagon wood and Cardinal tooth (how does that even work?)

It might be a bit hard to categorize some animals.  Canines and felines would be easy, but what about aardvarks and draltha?  One is in its own order (or some taxonomical category) and one is not only not real, but not described in a way to easily categorize it.
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Wooster

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 09:14:35 am »

It could be based on the civs knowledge for generated creatures, but ideally be more regional than that. This would help against mandates for items made of inaccessible materials.
I like this. In real life, migrants do often hanker for things that remind them of home, so there ought to be the opportunity for moods and mandates to require things available only by trade. But yes, dwarves ought to develop preferences based on what they see and experience (which could, indeed, include resources imported from other dwarves or even non-dwarves).
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utunnels

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 09:41:15 am »

Yeah.
In my opinion, dorfs or other creature should have general preferences, instead of completely random.
IRL, there are some odd/quirky people but that is it, you don't usually have a full fort of freaks.
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falcc

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 12:13:02 am »

I love this.

Maybe when a Dwarf interacts with a particular material it adds a counter somewhere. There's proportional weight to normal material modifiers, because really fancy things like the only Tiger they've ever seen when the Elves bring a caravan, but if they constantly work with dogs that counts enough times over to keep forts from all wanting adamantine tiger statues. When they hit some arbitrary number (or maybe have it settable so you could go really random with favorites or be careful and play it safe with regular interactions) you get a "Urist McRockTosser has grown attached to all stone" announcement, with additional refinements gradually.

That also leads to more specification as they get high numbers on a few particular materials. At first they're just interested in wood but they get a particular interest in oak and chairs. Once they've mastered a craft they're going to know what a good example of those objects is better than most Dwarves. Of course, that means if you ever find enough adamantine to have it pass through a bunch of hands, or a lot of early gold mining, you'll have to find a way to ration it somewhere away from people, or use more of it for greedy nobles. It could even have implications when the economy comes in.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 06:37:16 pm »

If we're going to have age-based preferences, newborn dwarves would probably have a favorite type of fabric first (whatever they were first swaddled with), then a drink, then a food, and then a favorite color. Cloth, food, and drink preferences could all change as the dwarf grows up, not solidifying until age 12. Other material preferences would accumulate slowly through childhood (and be strongly influenced by each dwarf's apprenticeship, once that gets implemented), and be randomly chosen from what the Mountainhome can access (plus whatever might have been found in the fort, for fortress-borns). That should be more than adequate, at least for now.

Later on, material preferences should be dictated by personality traits, where possible: If Urist regards craftsdwarfship as being extremely important, he would prefer materials that hold detail well--like marble as opposed to chalk. Kogan's great respect for martial prowess and seeing war as a necessary means to an end would push her towards steel, not rose gold. Individuals could also have a set of personality traits for the material types: For each person, stone + wood + metal + leather + etc. would add up to a total of 100%. (There could be a general template for how much each race likes each of the various materials, and then individuals would have some random variation from their race's template.) These "material traits" would dictate how many favored materials of a given material type each dwarf would have, and also apply a base quality modifier when working with that material type. For example, a particular dwarf's "material trait" for gems might be 29%, so the game picks 3 random gems that their Mountainhome has found (claro opal, moss agate, pyrite), and when working with those 3 kinds of gems, that dwarf has 129% of the base chance to create a masterwork (before experience modifiers are added, of course). When working with other gems, the dwarf has 29% of the base chance. As a side effect of liking jewels so much, the dwarf has a higher chance of liking large gems, and other assorted gemstone cuts.

Material preferences might also change through work: Rather than have every single dwarf have a counter for every single material he might ever work with, just have every completed job carry a really, really small chance of increasing the dwarf's material trait for that material type, and an even smaller chance of changing an existing material preference of the correct type (e.g., schist) to the material that was actually worked with (gabbro). But this might be influenced (or even prevented) by the dwarf's other personality traits, especially stubbornness.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 09:14:01 pm by SixOfSpades »
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TimoRan

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Re: More varied material TYPE preferences.
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 08:27:08 pm »

I love these ideas as well.

I would personally go a step further and allow dwarves to gain affinity for items of their loved ones interests. Even allow for emotional reactions in the events of tragedy. I feel like it would infer a deeper life-likeness to the dwarves.

Urist has felt grief after seeing an *insert type* bracelet, his deceased wife loved *insert type*.
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