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[umiman]

Especially depleted and fleeing.
Them stacking buffs tho.

Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation

Yeah, I don't even bother chasing down Skaven usually. Maybe at best send a mounted ranged unit to go within range.

Skaven are really scary to fight honestly. Their swarming ability is just fearsome as they come in such huge amounts. You chase them away for a short while then they come back again and again and again. Not to mention their ridiculous artillery and highest end troops do so goddamn much damage.

They're the only faction that can reliably kill units in my end-game Dark Elf stacks.

[Teneb]

Especially depleted and fleeing.
Them stacking buffs tho.

Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation

Yeah, I don't even bother chasing down Skaven usually. Maybe at best send a mounted ranged unit to go within range.

Skaven are really scary to fight honestly. Their swarming ability is just fearsome as they come in such huge amounts. You chase them away for a short while then they come back again and again and again. Not to mention their ridiculous artillery and highest end troops do so goddamn much damage.

They're the only faction that can reliably kill units in my end-game Dark Elf stacks.

You are obviously not using enough darkshards. If you think you are, you, sir, are a liar. For there is no such thing as enough darkshards.

[umiman]

Especially depleted and fleeing.
Them stacking buffs tho.

Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation

Yeah, I don't even bother chasing down Skaven usually. Maybe at best send a mounted ranged unit to go within range.

Skaven are really scary to fight honestly. Their swarming ability is just fearsome as they come in such huge amounts. You chase them away for a short while then they come back again and again and again. Not to mention their ridiculous artillery and highest end troops do so goddamn much damage.

They're the only faction that can reliably kill units in my end-game Dark Elf stacks.

You are obviously not using enough darkshards. If you think you are, you, sir, are a liar. For there is no such thing as enough darkshards.

I stopped using Darkshards once I saw how insane Shades were. No contest whatsoever.

[Hanslanda]

Agreed. I found darkshards disappointing.

[Sindain]

I continued using darkshards heavily throughout the game. Shades aren't that much more killy at range and a lot more expensive. And they can't get shields.

That being said, in the context of fighting Skaven "more darkshards" is pretty poor advice imo. Darkshards (and dark elven crossbows in general) main strength is excellent armor pen damage, which isn't that useful against Skaven.

[Tack]

Yeah, I only realized that Swordsmen o’ Hoeth and White Lions o’ Chrace had missile resistance when I played something other than dark elves, because they’re just so killtastic.
The reload speed on darkshards is sub-par compared to shades, but for the price i’d rather field two armies of the former.

Edit: Other notes of “not playing dark elves”- when i’m Fighting against them and they suddenly glow purple, i’m Way more afraid than when I was playing as them and had prowess proc.

[OutOfManaException]

The Total War appearance of Lizardmen troops is spot on. Absolutely wish they'd resculpt the miniatures to suit it.

[Majestic7]

Playing as Ganja Elves, I found Skaven the easiest enemies to fight. Most of my armies had two dragons, two bolt-throwers, a wizard and half of the infantry were archers (seaguard or otherwise). Most Skaven armies broke before close combat from the sheer blasting power. When all units were routing simultaneously, they shattered and battle won.

Lizzies seem to lack similar tools to cause mass rout or keep routed enemies fleeing.

[umiman]

I continued using darkshards heavily throughout the game. Shades aren't that much more killy at range and a lot more expensive. And they can't get shields.

That being said, in the context of fighting Skaven "more darkshards" is pretty poor advice imo. Darkshards (and dark elven crossbows in general) main strength is excellent armor pen damage, which isn't that useful against Skaven.

Allow me to correct some misinformation here.

The DE Darkshard crossbow does almost all its damage in armour piercing (3 regular, 11 AP). That's basically true damage, so no mitigation. Each crossbow also shoots two bolts per shot, so double that amount. It reloads about 50% slower than a HE bow, but HE bows only do a puny amount of AP damage (16 regular, 3 AP). HE bows have longer range though.

Shades do even more AP damage and reload as fast as HE bows. So despite having 10 less men, they do WAY more damage in general.

The obscene amounts of AP damage they put out is the reason why they just melt everything, be it a dragon or a naked orc. This is the case with almost all their crossbows including the mounted ones and the Cold One Chariot.

Regular damage has no bonuses whatsoever. AP damage is just better against everything. Doesn't matter if it's a rat or a phoenix guard.

In testing that people have done, Shades can easily, EASILY, beat Darkshards w/ shields 1v2. The reload speed is a huge bonus as again, Shades fires as fast as two Darkshards. Not to mention Shades are practically guaranteed to get the first shot off due to stealth.

Not to mention Shades are actually amazing in melee. I believe right now they're considered overpowered in MP. In campaign it's a no brainer as you basically have unlimited money anyway, so their only limiting factor in cost is gone.

Using them reminds me of using US Marines in Fall of the Samurai.

[Teneb]

The main reason I go for Darkshards is because it's easier to get them on the go from just-captured settlements or black arks.

But Dark Elf crossbows be crazy.

[Cruxador]

The Total War appearance of Lizardmen troops is spot on.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Sindain]

@umiman (too lazy too quote cuz I'm on mobile)
I'll admit, my opinion on shades is based on general feelings from my campaign rather than anything objective, so I could be wrong about them. Though personaly I did not value their melee power at all, which is part of why I didn't like them that much.

But what I really want to address is your statement on ap damage. I know that normal damage isn't "better" against light armour, but in reality you're always trading something for the ap damage (unless the unit is op, like you claim shades are).
For example, using the numbers you provided HE bows have about the same firerate as DE crossbows, but with more total damage and much better range. So against a hypothetical 0 armour troop, the HE bow is just better than the crossbow.

[Burnt Pies]

Umi didn't mention that the crossbow fires 2 shots at once. Double the stated damage numbers.

I've done a bit of testing in MP. High Elf bow advantage is range and some reload speed. This doesn't matter much, as the Dark Elf repeater crossbow out-dpses them so hard that even taking a volley or two before being able to fire back doesn't prevent the Darkshards from utterly crushing the Archer unit. Plus, those are 55% block shields on the shielded Darkshards, so they can tank bowfire all day.

I'd be surprised if the Shade isn't the finest ranged unit in any army thus far. Fast reload on the most damaging and AP-focused ranged weapon in the game? Their sole weakness is range, and you can mitigate that in campaign anyway.

[Tack]

I am incredibly curious about when shields apply, re: quarrellers and sea guard vs darkshards.

[Burnt Pies]

Quarrelers, thunderers and sea guard all put their shield away to fire, and I've heard a lot of people say it's not active while they're firing. Darkshards rest their crossbow atop their shield to fire. I don't know if that's actually got a gameplay impact at all, but going purely by animations I'd say shielded darkshards are the only shielded ranged unit that might get the shield effect while firing.

That said, the darkshards much lower range means that the shields are worthwhile regardless, as they will take at least one volley as they close the range to fire themselves.