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[Tack]

I actually find that the most annoying. Whenever the trolls get hurt, they bail out, but they regenerate so quickly you have to deal with them anew when they reform.
Especially if their damage is spread around evenly, too. I find that I either use siege weapons and hope to snipe a few or just acknowledge that they'll be a thorn in my side for the rest of the game.

[Teneb]

I actually find that the most annoying. Whenever the trolls get hurt, they bail out, but they regenerate so quickly you have to deal with them anew when they reform.
Especially if their damage is spread around evenly, too. I find that I either use siege weapons and hope to snipe a few or just acknowledge that they'll be a thorn in my side for the rest of the game.

Magic, monsters and heroes/lords are also pretty good vs trolls.

[Grim Portent]

Yeah, the best way to deal with trolls in my experience so far is to throw a terrorgheist at them when playing VCs, or a shaggoth/giant as WoC. Hard to regenerate when you've been picked up, shaken about and thrown 50 feet out of the battle.

[Stuebi]

Regeneration Units in general are pretty crazy.

You can win most low-tier Vamp fights earlygame with just mannfred and the Vargulf on their own. Trolls at least get stuck if you sourrund them. Stuff like Vargulf and Terrorgeists will just casually plow through your line and go regen somewhere.

Unit hitboxes in general are incredibly f*cked up. Flying units will literally ignore your orders to disengage, if even one of them is still stuck somwhere. I've had a Unit of 12 Vargeists almost wipe after one of them charged almsot twice the distance than the others into a meele, and then couldnt get out. The other 11 just kept circling above the fight, getting shot at by ranged units, until the one guy finally died.

Units on the retreat on the other hand. Anyone ever tried to kill a retreating Lord in a Horse? You can literally cover a good 200 square metres around the guy in bodies, and he will casually walk out of it. Most units just run alongside retreating stuff if you tell them to kill it, with single units being the absolute worst offenders. I've had fights with 2 Warbosses and a Goblin Big Boss, where I told all 3 of them to kill one retreating Warpriest. The guy was on FOOT, and all 3 of them had mounts. They just kept bumping him to the ground without doing damage, and then walked him to the edge of the map with a good 1k of hp to spare.

[Neonivek]

In all fairness you wouldn't want them to be capable of being bogged down... THAT and they are giant super people, what is going to stop them?

[umiman]

Regeneration Units in general are pretty crazy.

You can win most low-tier Vamp fights earlygame with just mannfred and the Vargulf on their own. Trolls at least get stuck if you sourrund them. Stuff like Vargulf and Terrorgeists will just casually plow through your line and go regen somewhere.

Unit hitboxes in general are incredibly f*cked up. Flying units will literally ignore your orders to disengage, if even one of them is still stuck somwhere. I've had a Unit of 12 Vargeists almost wipe after one of them charged almsot twice the distance than the others into a meele, and then couldnt get out. The other 11 just kept circling above the fight, getting shot at by ranged units, until the one guy finally died.

The flying unit thing is intentional.

In one of their making of videos they talked about how they made it so flying units get easily bogged down in a fight so they can't just skirmish you endlessly and have to choose to commit to fights for at least a little while.

It's not that they're ignoring your orders, it's just that they can't take off until they're clear of units. So if you keep ordering them to run they'll ignore their enemies and continue to take damage while they find a way out of their predicament.

There seem to be several tiers of massive units. You have regular guys who get bogged down easily. These are guys the size of the average human. Then you have slightly larger monsters like cavalry and Vargheists and Trolls who also seem to get stuck in fights and can't escape without some issues. Then you have massive monsters like Giants and Araknaroks and Vargulfs who can faff around the battlefield like it ain't no thang.

---------------

I think it's also why the Terrorgheist is so much more survivable. It can claw its way out of being surrounded and then take off. Vargheists do way more damage but if they get surrounded they're basically dead.

[dennislp3]

It is also shown in the animations...they need to run a good distance on the ground before they can take off and fly...cant do that in a fight

[Grim Portent]

I'm very impressed by Shaggoths. They move fast, kill well, disrupt enemy formations really nicely and generally smash stuff up good. I've been using them in my WoC game along with Dragon Ogres to form the bulk of Kholek's army, and in general I find they perform better than most comparable units.


For funsies in a custom battle I pitted 10 Shaggoths and Kholek against about 3500 empire swordsmen with 3 foot generals.

Lost 2 Shaggoths by the time the fight ended, and the others were all down to about 1/6 of their health, but each killed about 270 swordsmen before the enemy finally broke and fled. None of the surviving empire units were at more than 1/3 health.

[Tack]

Shaggoths aren't anti-infantry, so I usually try to duel giants or steam tanks with them.

[Grim Portent]

Shaggoths aren't anti-infantry, so I usually try to fuel giants or steam tanks with them.

But it's so fun to watch dino-centaurs send people flying through the air.

[umiman]

Here's a video of a pro doing an explanation of his tactics that won him the recent ESL tournament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4wYG9cdfQ

The rules of the tournament were max 2 heroes and max 6 of any unit I think.

He plays very well I think and he has some very good insights.

Here's the Reddit thread where he talks some more about armies and such: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4mz6st/hi_i_recently_won_the_esl_and_flash_tournaments/

[PrimusRibbus]

Here's a video of a pro doing an explanation of his tactics that won him the recent ESL tournament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4wYG9cdfQ

The rules of the tournament were max 2 heroes and max 6 of any unit I think.

He plays very well I think and he has some very good insights.

Here's the Reddit thread where he talks some more about armies and such: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4mz6st/hi_i_recently_won_the_esl_and_flash_tournaments/

One of the things I've always found enjoyable about high-level TW play is watching how strategic and tactical errors play out. Both sides in that video made some major mistakes, but Jevanko had the situational awareness to more effectively capitalize on them.

The left flank was really what made the game: Jevanko royally screwed up his force composition, formation, and facing there... and yet instead of taking the opportunity to pin him down on the flank and win the center, his opponent tied up a massive amount of his own forces trying to wipe out the left flank. It was pure, unadulterated tunnel-vision. Really fun to watch it play out.

[umiman]

Yeah, it's fun to watch. I hope we see more of these as time goes on as it gives us insights into how to play the game beyond what we're comfortable with (which is a huge problem with singleplayer as the AI almost never changes its strats so you just get comfortable doing the same thing over and over again.).

For example, I didn't know that an overcasted magic missile does 1500 damage compared to the measly pathetic damage it does normally.

[Mech#4]

I like the image of Shaggoths breaking down the enemy gate and ploughing through the defenders. I'm sure when you select them you can hear their roar echo if they're some distance away from the camera.


I think the overcharging might affect more spells in similar ways but the spell book encyclopaedia doesn't really mention more than the 50% chance to miscast. Maybe most spells are meant to be overcast and not doing so gets the weaker, safe version?

On miscasting, I've had enemy mages kill themselves due to miscasting, was quite funny when Mannfred did so causing his whole army to disintegrate.

[umiman]

On miscasting, I've had enemy mages kill themselves due to miscasting, was quite funny when Mannfred did so causing his whole army to disintegrate.

I don't think that can happen. As far as I've seen miscasting takes away 50% of your current HP. I've miscasted on a 25% hp mage before and it brought me down to half of that. So you can miscast if you're almost dead but you'd die to something else.

By the way, I'm sure you've heard the awesome "NORSCA" that the warriors of Chaos will shout out together. It's so damn good.