Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Cthulhu]

I think the real concern with 40k is that it wouldn't be massed line troops anymore, which is the same problem with modern total war.  Also with the advanced ranged weapons they also have to have more terrain.

[umiman]

I think the real concern with 40k is that it wouldn't be massed line troops anymore, which is the same problem with modern total war.  Also with the advanced ranged weapons they also have to have more terrain.

Yeah, the map would be have to be hundreds of km in size at least.

It wouldn't be feasible though all of us dream of it.

------------

By the way, I noticed that the AI in this game doesn't cheat as much as it used to (other than the agents). It still cheats for free upkeep and stuff but I haven't really come across any single city states magically spawning 4 doomstacks or anything. I've been playing on Legendary and I've been pleasantly surprised at how... easy it is. It doesn't feel all that different from the other difficulties other than the fact that I can't manually save or use the minimap or pause and issue commands.

Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.

Oh, the AI also gets boosts in the combat itself but it doesn't feel particularly exaggerated. They do way more damage that's for sure but I've never really been in a situation where I went "that's totally unfair". Again, not like in the past where some peasant spearmen on legendary could kill off Roman legions. Though it has to be noted that I can't send my heroes and lords on suicidal charges into the enemy now as they get wrecked if they get surrounded.

I'd say the only major issues that come with legendary difficulty are: The massive -60 relations to other factions when you get powerful and the -8 public order shit. Oh, and the agents, except I recommend you mod / neuter them.

[Teneb]

Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.

So legendary chaos doomstacks are not magical hunnic hordes that not only respawn with full stacks, but also upgrade their units each respawn. Nice. Lord + 19 Doom Divers sounds hilarious, though.

[umiman]

Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.

So legendary chaos doomstacks are not magical hunnic hordes that not only respawn with full stacks, but also upgrade their units each respawn. Nice. Lord + 19 Doom Divers sounds hilarious, though.

Yeah, they're not that level of bullshit.

I think that arty bug is something that's been around since Fall of the Samurai. I remember ragequitting one of my legendary runs when I saw the enemy cheatspawn 4 fullstacks, and one of them was general + 19 armstrong guns.

Another reason why I think it's easier this time around is because of how hard it is for a unit to get completely wiped out or for your general to die. They generally just run away when shit gets bad and the threshold for a unit card being disbanded seems really low (like... 5 men low or even just 1 for artillery and demigryphs). So your army, even if it gets completely owned to the point of 10% of your guys remaining, tends to stick around and all you have to do is sit in a city and heal. I know right now my main strat is using my artillery as bait to pull the enemy cavalry into a pointy-stick trap. Sure the artillery always get routed but I don't mind waiting a turn for them to get healed back up.

[Cthulhu]

I'm having a lot of fun with spider riders.  The AI isn't smart enough to figure out that they have to be in one of the forest spots, so his arty and thunderers get skragged every time.  They're also really good at running down fleeing troops, which is good since it's so hard to put them down for good.

Tribes are officially united, only black venom and one tiny tribe that'll probably ask to be confederated.  Currently overthrowing the last Dwarf-faction city.  Once they're out, get the last couple stragglers, upgrade my armies with all my new money and cool units, knock over Tilea, and then the gates are open.

[Grim Portent]

Decided to try and wipe out the Dwarves before taking on the Empire properly in my Vampire Counts game. Every time I got close to finishing them off they'd confederate with an independent clan and wind up with territory several turns march away. Wound up having to call off the war after razing about 9 or 10 settlements because Archaon and his buddies kept burning down my stuff. Fortunately I weathered the storm with 4 castles intact and 2 strong armies, and Chaos has since moved on to the West when they ran out of easy stuff to raze. I'm picking through the ashes of the Empire territories that used to be to my north and building them into new vampire territory as fast as I can before anyone else can get to it.

So far the only faction I've actually found hard to fight is Dwarves. All the others rout easily enough once their leader is dead and they have a few Terrorgheists eating their back line while Grave Guard hew down their front ranks, but Dwarves just don't run. It's kind of exhausting to fight them compared to Chaos, Orcs or the Empire.

[Tack]

By the way, I noticed that the AI in this game doesn't cheat as much as it used to (other than the agents). It still cheats for free upkeep and stuff but I haven't really come across any single city states magically spawning 4 doomstacks or anything. I've been playing on Legendary and I've been pleasantly surprised at how... easy it is. It doesn't feel all that different from the other difficulties other than the fact that I can't manually save or use the minimap or pause and issue commands.

Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.

Oh, the AI also gets boosts in the combat itself but it doesn't feel particularly exaggerated. They do way more damage that's for sure but I've never really been in a situation where I went "that's totally unfair". Again, not like in the past where some peasant spearmen on legendary could kill off Roman legions. Though it has to be noted that I can't send my heroes and lords on suicidal charges into the enemy now as they get wrecked if they get surrounded.

I'd say the only major issues that come with legendary difficulty are: The massive -60 relations to other factions when you get powerful and the -8 public order shit. Oh, and the agents, except I recommend you mod / neuter them.

I think Hevy Hard and Legendary difficulty still give a decent income bump to AI factions though, because I found looting way more lucrative on the harder difficulties.
So yeah, basically paid my way through a VHard chaos game, just hammered out the shortgame in 12 hours.

Infighting between awakened tribes is a bit of a bother, but I just backed the biggest one every time and soon enough I had a loyal (if needy) AI pet who was willing to send doomstacks into the furnace by the dozen.

[umiman]

Infighting between awakened tribes is a bit of a bother, but I just backed the biggest one every time and soon enough I had a loyal (if needy) AI pet who was willing to send doomstacks into the furnace by the dozen.

Here's how I solved that problem. I would awaken one, then immediately attack it right afterwards. I'll get the option to turn them into a vassal.

Vassals are so much better than that alliance they get. They don't fight each other or you and you still get all the benefits. Also money.

[Frumple]

... been watching vids. Game looks pretty damn enticing, but unfortunately I can't afford it and I'm preeeetty sure I couldn't run it even if I could (the best processor I have access to is a 2.1 ghz dual core :V). Still probably the most attracted I've been to a total war game in ever. Anyway. Been watching campaign attempts. Wanna' see some more!

Would... would any of you be able to recommend one that's not either entirely or sporadically what amounts to physically painful to watch? About the most competent one I've seen yet, I just watched complain about not being able to kill an ork general-whatsit when they had had a rank 6 Thorgrim at near full health sitting there doing nothing for most of the fight. It. It hurt. Every time he panned over the battle to show bossdwarf just standing there idle as the greenskin ripped into warriors or quarrelers. They've also spent, like. One or two episodes mostly kvetching about dwarven lack of calvary, naturally accompanied by making wide, easily flanked formations in some of the most undwarven displays of organization I've ever seen in my life. And I repeat. This is the most competent campaign LPer I've yet found, out at least four or five different ones checked. At least he's only mildly stupid about empire management (Yes, a 50% increase to that replenishment rate bonus, nevermind the extra growth on top of it, is worth 1k gold ) and non-battle decisions (we'll not talk about the other one that spent probably two to three episodes walking their main army back and forth across their territory doing literally nothing and forgot they were saving for an ancient armory probably five times before I went to try to find something that didn't hurt as bad).

Please. Someone, tell me where I can go to make it stop ;_;

... also, out of curiosity, because I'm not sure which of these guys have been being more stupid... do archers actually suffer some kind of penalty for shooting over allies? I can't tell, and because of that I can't tell whether the ones that have their melee lines sitting up front or the ones having them behind the crossbows inevitably failing to react to enemy charges in time are the more braindead, and it's been bugging me.

[Teneb]

Oh wow. Look, I'm bad at the game and that is still imbecilic by my standards.

Anyway, I don't think there is a problem with shooting over allies, but there is friendly fire. Skirmish mode (run when enemy is near) is deactivated by default but is just a button press away. Looks like, again, stupid people doing stupid things.

[Mech#4]

Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.

So legendary chaos doomstacks are not magical hunnic hordes that not only respawn with full stacks, but also upgrade their units each respawn. Nice. Lord + 19 Doom Divers sounds hilarious, though.

I have had Dwarf armies wandering around made up of the lord, 4 quarrellers, 3 grudge throwers and 12 longbeards. That's not that bad I suppose but I see longbeards more as an elite and not mainline unit.

[Frumple]

Oh wow. Look, I'm bad at the game and that is still imbecilic by my standards.

Anyway, I don't think there is a problem with shooting over allies, but there is friendly fire. Skirmish mode (run when enemy is near) is deactivated by default but is just a button press away. Looks like, again, stupid people doing stupid things.

I mean, I sorta' understand how it goes. You're trying to hold dialogue, make it entertaining, and play at the same time. Something tends to give, there, and distraction tends to kill technical skill/tactical consideration before it kills conversational skill. It's understandable, and very common among LPers, especially ones that are doing streams and similar style material. I get what's happening, these folks probably don't have nearly as much trouble when they're not recording, so I'm not going to rag on 'em too hard.

But even if I understand, it hurts to watch. Also makes me constantly second guess as to whether they're actually rather competent at the game and they're working around mechanics I don't understand (particularly since I can't play) or they're really as bad as it looks. The state of confusion adds another level of mild unpleasantness

E: Speaking of which, is there some kind of downside to using the attack move command I've seen precisely one person use, exactly once? Because no one seems to use it, even when it would result in frankly better results (stay in line, engage as encountered, instead of break up in odd ways at odd times and ruin any cohesion you might have had) than dicking around trying to individually assign units.

E2: Or a reason to put off that initial hero-granting mission battle thing? Every time someone's bothered to actually look at the opposing force, it's been fairly puny and the rewards substantial, but... I've also only see it beat once or twice, with even folks that do look at the enemy composition just kinda' twiddling their thumbs instead of taking the easy rewards. People seem to enjoy staring down that horse's throat for dozens of turns... though at least that's not as annoying as the times that they actively comment on the fight looking easy and then screw off to garrison a town that doesn't need it or some meaningless crap like that.

[Cthulhu]

Ohhhh boyzzzzz.  There's only one tribe left, the Bloody Hand, and we're about to fight two full stacks on two full stacks.  That's 4000 orcs.  I've got black orcs and araknaroks and all kinds of shit, they're still pretty conventional, so I think I'll come out ahead.

Archers seem a lot stronger than I remember in other games, but that may just be a side-effects of orcs vs dorfs.  Dorfs have crazy ranged units, orcs have low leadership, and all.

[umiman]

Frumple:

1. I don't really like a lot of Total War lets plays because they hurt my brain like you mentioned. If I do watch any, I like those that are more for humour than seriousness. The Yogscast did a bunch of videos on it, but mostly just multiplayer battles. I don't like Legend of Total War because he just cheeses every battle and acts like he's good or something. Seriously, I beat all the Total Wars on legendary and never needed to cheese to that degree, why exactly does he think he's so great for cheesing every single bleeding battle? So yeah, I never watch them.

2. Archers get an accuracy penalty if they're lobbing shots instead of shooting directly. In this game they nerfed friendly fire a lot though and you really only have to worry about artillery doing friendly fire (which they will, a lot). I don't like using guns because they can't arc over troops and they're not as fearsome as Napoleon or Fall of the Samurai. I like the outriders a lot though, mostly because they're mounted so they actually can shoot over your troops, but they can run around very fast to shoot flanks. They also carry gatling guns.

3. There's no attack move command as far as I know. You're referring to them using the advance, retreat, turn, etc. commands? (movement keys) The downside to using it is your units don't charge targets when they get in range, rather they will just walk or run into them without the charge bonus. Using formation move and those commands are great for minor tweaks to formation or just generally moving in a group when you can't be arsed to reform everything.

4. There are good reasons to put off the initial quest that gives you a hero. The hero costs a lot in upkeep and you have to waste time running there to get what amounts to a pretty silly reward. You also have to waste turns healing the damage back from the quest. For the Empire one I never bother with it until I'm done conquering Reikland and another province.

[Mech#4]

Let's plays of Total War games I've enjoyed are a Kislev playthrough of Call of Warhammer by Arch Warhammer and various playthroughs of Rome: Total War by Tad30s.
 
Arch was interesting because of large armies of mounted Cossacks holding off the chaos invasion. Tad30s was interesting because of his good grasp of synchronised charges to break enemy armies with very minimal casualties.


The health system in Warhammer has some effects on ranged from what I've seen. With crossbows firing on zombies it takes about 3 volleys before any of the zombies start dying. The bolts are doing damage but the unit health has to deplete a bit before it starts losing units. 6480 / 120 I think means each zombie has 54 hitpoints.