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[lordcooper]

How can you "turtle" in a tactics situation? Seems to me it's just a defensive tactic and entirely worthwhile when you've got a good lot of artillery.

Because field battles in TW games have an artificially (by necessity) limited amount of space.

If you turtle up in a corner of the map I can only approach you from the front, whereas in an actual battle there aren't invisible walls preventing my cavalry from circling behind you.

[umiman]

How can you "turtle" in a tactics situation? Seems to me it's just a defensive tactic and entirely worthwhile when you've got a good lot of artillery.

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense.

Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

The idea that a war can be won by standing on the defensive and waiting for the enemy to attack is a dangerous fallacy, which owes its inception to the desire to evade the price of victory.

It's an incredible waste of everyone's time because you can't lose unless you're turtling too. You outnumber them by default and they have no room for any sort of tactical maneuver other than the hole they've already dug themselves into. To give you an idea, a rank 10 Armstrong gun in Shogun 2 costs 1830. That's the same price as three regular infantry. A rank 1 Armstrong gun costs 1300. That's two regular infantry. So for every piece of artillery you get, you sacrifice 2-3x your number.

So you end up with one guy that has 2-3x the army size of the other just trudging halfway across the map to an inevitable victory. There's no fun. There's no excitement. There's no strategy or talent or skill. You know you're going to win. The other side is too blind to realize they had no chance of victory. It's just a waste of time.

In reality this might not be the case as it's just as likely that the turtler can do shit other than turtle and have more manpower, but in TW this is completely untrue because of the mechanics of the game.

[Neonivek]

I should state, however, that... well... they are kind of wrong

But the idea of having such overwhelming defenses or strength that you force peace is more of a modern day inception due to the fact that we have the technology to make any war extremely costly immediately.

[ThtblovesDF]

I see arty as a tool that forces the enemy to engage or aim at high value targets.

[umiman]

New video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux4IqM4gXeY

I wonder if this means that we're going back to pre-made maps rather than Rome 2's "play-on-whatever-you're-on" thing.

Also those charges. So brutal.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Frankly, turtling is a valid strategy. It isn't better than any other (I've played every TW game since Rome, btw) and it can be beaten like any other. Turtling is no worse than say, the incredibly annoying horse archer spam, so ya.

EDIT: Git Gud.

[pisskop]

o.o

That looks pretty good.  I know relatively little about warhammer, but Im sure Id be willing to learn if its going to actually be worth the monies

[lordcooper]

I wonder if this means that we're going back to pre-made maps rather than Rome 2's "play-on-whatever-you're-on" thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4fhfys/battlefield_briefing_bloodpine_woods/d28v28w?context=1

[sambojin]

For gameplay and longevity reasons I'm glad they're going for procedural maps like normal.

But I wouldn't mind having tonnes of prefabs either. Strategically it might be good to be able to rely on having certain prominent terrain features to help you defend or attack in certain places. I know proc-genned maps will stay the same in each battle at those co-ordinates, but prefabs tend to make for quite nice and specific challenges to overcome or utilize.

I wonder if the proc-genned ones have been massaged a fair bit to suit different army types? Will the traditional dwarven areas suit turtling while the bretonnian areas have vast plains with a few forests suited to cav charges, whereby giving a racial hat and reason for those people to live there and be successful in those places? Or will these map types at least be more regular in "their areas"?

I guess there'll be a bit of both, so you probably will learn where better places are to engage, depending on army makeup. You'll probably find you own "Blackfire Pass" that suits your army type and playstyle every once in a while, and note it down for future reference for defenses, while certain other areas will have prefabs with really well detailed pre-canned maps. Ever easy to please, I want stacks of everything, and for it all to be done really well.

[umiman]

I wish it would tell you what the terrain you're fighting on is before you actually go and fight in it.

I mean, you kinda have an idea but sometimes it can really sneak up on you. For example, when you siege Antioch in Rome 2 it looks like any other flat desert with some water nearby. But if the enemy actually sallies forth, what you find is that you, the defender, are at the foot of a ginormous mountain and all your enemies will spawn on the huge high ground above you. The cliff elevation is such that your arty can't even shoot up it and you'll get totally rolled (literally).

I'm still bitter about it... The Selucids stampeded me with 80 Elephants there...

-----------

Come to think of it. Do you have to the same quest battles every single time? I can imagine that gets really annoying fast.

[Teneb]

Come to think of it. Do you have to the same quest battles every single time? I can imagine that gets really annoying fast.

I think they are static for each lord, so I guess yes.

[umiman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYmOHCvb1U8

CA confirmed that Bretonnia will be free-LC and that it'll be available for custom and MP battles but not for campaign (with a limited roster).

Edit: Those pegasus wings don't long strong enough to support their riders.

Holy shit the Terrorgeist is so scary.

[Teneb]

CA confirmed that Bretonnia will be free-LC and that it'll be available for custom and MP battles but not for campaign (with a limited roster).

You mean it'll be available for custom and MP before it comes out as freeLC or also after?

EDIT: Nevermind, saw the full thing and pre-freeLC bretonnia will be available for MP and custom. After, it'll have its campaign I guess.

EDIT 2: The bretonnian player could've probably done much much better if he hadn't wasted time zooming in and watching charges (they could've pre-recorded the thing and then panned around showing off the combat).

[sprinkled chariot]

Will there be awesome naval battles?

[Cruxador]

Will there be awesome naval battles?

Nope.