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[umiman]

When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.

An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.

If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".

That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.

Oh that's fine then.

-----

I hope you can use pikemen in this Total War like in Rome 2. I really like the mechanics behind pikemen there where you have to manually lower the pikes and move in formation to get the full effect. They purposely gave them low individual unit stats so if they get caught out of position without their pikes, they get slaughtered. But if they're able to have their pikes up, then they're strong as shit.

It's hard to describe in words, but it's very well done in Rome 2 and adds a lot of tactical nuance to the battles. Because ANYTHING the pikes slowly walk into will lose. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if it's elephants or the best Roman legions. However, even peasant levies that charge their sides or catch them off guard can seriously destroy their numbers. Also if you had like 10x their number you could just break through them. So you have to choose between running around as pikes and when to slowly march forwards as a wall of doom.

The reason I bring this up is because pikes were basically the only answer the elephants in Rome 2. So I imagine they'd probably be the Empire and other human factions' best bet against monstrous creatures. And I'd bet they'd be vital against these Bretonnian arseholes as well. There are guns too in this (so awesome) but I can't imagine gunners being particularly useful when a wyvern falls on them from the sky or a gigantic spider steps on them.

[Retropunch]

It's weird, but this might be the most tactical of all total war games, just because of the angles of attack which we haven't really had before. I'm a bit worried that magic will disrupt the balance a bit and do away with careful tactics, but if they're sensible about it then this could be awesomely engaging.

I'd quite like to think there are some definite counters to monstrous units rather than just brute force - it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

[Teneb]

I'd quite like to think there are some definite counters to monstrous units rather than just brute force - it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

It seems that this falls to halberdiers and (for dwarfs) the slayers.

[umiman]

It's too bad that I won't be able to play the MP for this until a year later when the Super Complete edition comes out at 50% off.

Seriously, I've been playing about 40+ hours of Rome 2 this past few days and the only thing in my mind is "why wasn't all this shit in the game to begin with?!". There's no bugs, performance is incredible, AI is amazing, so many awesome mods, so much content.

I'm also still extremely bitter about the Chaos preorder DLC bullshit. Unlike a lot of internet people, I have a very long and bitter and stubborn and vindictive memory.

[Cruxador]

When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.

An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.

Peasant bowmen are great too. They're not super high-tier, but they're six points each so you get a lot of them, and they're very efficient. I don't know if this will hold over to the vidya, but I imagine it should.

It's weird, but this might be the most tactical of all total war games, just because of the angles of attack which we haven't really had before. I'm a bit worried that magic will disrupt the balance a bit and do away with careful tactics, but if they're sensible about it then this could be awesomely engaging.

If magic has never done away with tactics before, why should it start now?

Also not sure why it's weird that emulating a tactically deeper game makes Total War tactically deeper.

[umiman]

When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.

An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.

Peasant bowmen are great too. They're not super high-tier, but they're six points each so you get a lot of them, and they're very efficient. I don't know if this will hold over to the vidya, but I imagine it should.

It does. In all the Total War games peasant bowmen are like 300g each.

Doesn't really matter much in the campaign where after awhile you basically have infinite money but it's a big deal in MP. It was massively important in Shogun 2's MP because Shogun 2 had the levelling system that made it so that the higher level your unit levels, the more expensive they become (including your mandatory general). So a high level player's army would be miniscule compared to a player at level 1.

It actually made the game really difficult when you got really high level. It's very hard to fight an army three times your size.

All the recent Total Wars abandoned the metagame kinda MP though. I know it was pretty divisive but I liked it. I like having some kind of progression in MP and it was nice having an army that felt like it was yours. Units that you manually named and levelled and coloured. Personal exploits and achievements. Honestly this Total War Warhammer could really use it as it was identical to having a figurine-based army.

[Mech#4]

When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.

An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.

If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".

That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.

Oh that's fine then.

-----

I hope you can use pikemen in this Total War like in Rome 2. I really like the mechanics behind pikemen there where you have to manually lower the pikes and move in formation to get the full effect. They purposely gave them low individual unit stats so if they get caught out of position without their pikes, they get slaughtered. But if they're able to have their pikes up, then they're strong as shit.

I don't think there are pikemen in any of the Warhammer Fantasy factions. The Empire have halbadiers and spearmen, Orcs and Goblins have spears, dwarfs have nothing like that and Vampire Counts have skeletons with spears. It's a curious hole in army lists and the only pike unit I can think of in the tabletop is a unit of mercenaries but Creative Assembly has mentioned there won't be mercenaries.

How the factions deal with large units of cavalry will be tricky. Orcs and Goblins might have to counter charge with Trolls or swamp with spears. Dwarfs will have to use ranged guns/crossbows and take charges with their heavy infantry. Vampire Counts might have to use fliers to tie up cavalry long enough to charge with other ground units as they lack even ranged units.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

No mercs??? That comes as a bit of a surprise with me. It seems like such a great mechanic for a TW game.

EDIT: Then again, with the direction Creative Assembly is going, I'm not sure I'm really sure/like what a TW game is any more these days.

[Majestic7]

Considering this is a marriage between Workshop and CA, both excellent moneygrubbers, you bet there will be Dogs of War DLC that adds mercenaries into the game later.

[Mech#4]

I mean, I can understand the lack of mercenaries because factions in Warhammer have rather deliberate short fallings in their unit lists. On the other hand, a lot of the regiments of renown or dogs of war are one off squads led by a hero so I would assume you would be really limited in how many you could hire.

I would like to see Richter Krueger and his cursed company. A squad that gains new units upon killing enemies would probably be too difficult to implement though.

[Isdar]

When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.

An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.

If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".

That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.

Oh that's fine then.

-----

I hope you can use pikemen in this Total War like in Rome 2. I really like the mechanics behind pikemen there where you have to manually lower the pikes and move in formation to get the full effect. They purposely gave them low individual unit stats so if they get caught out of position without their pikes, they get slaughtered. But if they're able to have their pikes up, then they're strong as shit.

I don't think there are pikemen in any of the Warhammer Fantasy factions. The Empire have halbadiers and spearmen, Orcs and Goblins have spears, dwarfs have nothing like that and Vampire Counts have skeletons with spears. It's a curious hole in army lists and the only pike unit I can think of in the tabletop is a unit of mercenaries but Creative Assembly has mentioned there won't be mercenaries.

How the factions deal with large units of cavalry will be tricky. Orcs and Goblins might have to counter charge with Trolls or swamp with spears. Dwarfs will have to use ranged guns/crossbows and take charges with their heavy infantry. Vampire Counts might have to use fliers to tie up cavalry long enough to charge with other ground units as they lack even ranged units.

I believe Wissenland (Where Nuln is) are known for using pikemen, but beyond that its all halberdiers for close-rank formation fighting.

[Majestic7]

Is there any explanation for the lack of pikes? It seems stupid considering Warhamster is all fake renaissance and pikes defined the era historically. I mean, zweihanders and halberds were used to counter the pikes... although I suppose in WH they are used against tough monsters. Still, I imagine pikes would be excellent in, say, stopping ork charges.

[Isdar]

As you say, zweihanders were used to counter pikes, orcs are pretty much living zweihanders. They are big, attack with reckless abandon and can easily break a pike. Unlike halberds which can still be used quite effectively even if the formation is broken.

[Mech#4]

Not really. I would guess it would partly be due to difficulty when it comes to the tabletop. How pikes would allocate hits if charged or charging, turning and reforming, ranks and number of hits and so on.
There is precedent for some of those mechanics though, spears have been able to hit using the first two, or three for High Elves, ranks when charged and elves have the "Always strike first" rule. I don't think there is really an answer for the lack of pikes.

[umiman]

Reading the wikis, I notice a lot of Tilian troops / mercenaries use pikes.