Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mech#4]

I prefer crossbows over handgunners because they can fire over my infantry frontline. I have trouble with Handgunners since I don't know where to place them if the terrain is flat. Behind infantry limits their firing arc and may cause friendly fire and in front means they have to retreat through my lines (If I don't want the A.I. moving through gaps between units). This same issue I have with artillery like Great Cannons as I really dislike friendly fire.
Aside: Hellstorm Rocket Battery's can friendly fire units placed a bit in front of them, sometimes a rocket skims low to the ground. Damn misfires.

The lack of armour piercing isn't that big of a deal I find as I use the crossbows against light cavalry skirmishers. Having a mage that can lower armour value (or the Helm of Discord) helps against more heavily armoured units, and more assault focused units tend to lack shields. Outriders are probably better but they require the artillery tree which... well... see Nuln Gunnery point.

Other than that, units of Pistoleers stay in my forces for a while. Usually 2 units for flanking and chasing fleeing units.

As for the Nuln Gunnery, it's a hang up I have. I don't want to build artillery without the bonuses, which means waiting until I have Nuln to build the artillery tree.


A bit more on artillery: It's a bit of a problem with them. Artillery is difficult to use in a setting where most of the factions focus on melee combat. Putting artillery in the front lines means clear line of sight but less time to fire until the enemy are within melee. Putting them behind means possible friendly fire and low line of sight when enemies get closer to your frontline. Putting artillery on hills helps but it's hard to do that playing offensively. Plus you need to keep units in reserve to fend off flanking units of chaos hounds/dire wolves.

[Majestic7]

I think the barrage gun has a higher arc of fire than the cannon, so you can use that instead for better success from behind the lines. It is good against slow, heavily armored infantry Chaos uses a lot. As for the cannon, yeah, usually I place my entire battleline based on where the cannon is put best. The rocket launchers are good for forcing the enemy to close even when you are attacking, since they have a very long range. I've noticed that rockets and mortars sometimes fire into close combat causing FF though. It is still a cheaper price in blood than leaving the infantry fight with usually superior melee enemy, though.

It is a shame Empire doesn't use pikes. Makes no sense considering how it copies 1600's Germany otherwise, but oh well, GW has never been known for making sense. (Like dwarves lacking any kind of polearms.)

[Tack]

I find dwarves wielding polearms to be frankly ridiculous. Long pikes require a wide stance. Dwarves would just pivot. Plus you never want to be stabbing upwards with pikes because that creates push, which is useless.


Also pikes killed ancient warfare and are awful in strategy games. At least guns have gained some kind of balance. Go play the Rome games and see how the pike line dominates.

So maybe I just dislike polearrms. I think medieval 2 were the only people to do it "well"

[TempAcc]

It makes sense that dwarves would use polearms tho. They're short but stocky and pretty strong, meaning they lack reach but have the strenght required to wield big weapons. Halberds would be excellent for them, plus the hammers used by hammerers are almost polearms already (at least if you consider the size of the hammers vs the size of the dwarf).

[Mech#4]

I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels and dwarfs use hand weapons that have duel purposes as tools. I think there might be something about polearms hafts being made of wood which is flimsy given dwarf axes and hammers have hafts of iron/gromril.


I believe the reason why the Empire doesn't use polearms beyond halberds is because a pike isn't going to stop a charging monster like a troll or an orc, whereas a halberd or greatsword can lop off an arm and deal larger wounds. Horse Cavalry isn't that major of an opponent to warrent pikes. Though, Estalia and Tilia have pike units in the Dogs of War lists. Cetaph's Southern Factions mod adds some pike units to their lists but I think they act like halberds.

[Burnt Pies]

Yeah, pikes in Cataph's mods aren't like pikes from historical TWs. Think they're Spearmen+, essentially. Direct combat with high melee defence and anti-large, rather than killing forcefield a few feet in front of the unit.

[Mech#4]

Few sights in Total War are more glorious than watching a cavalry/chariot army evaporate when holding a bridge with pikes/sarissa in Rome: Total War.

[ThtblovesDF]

I find dwarves wielding polearms to be frankly ridiculous.

Not to disagree, but The Hobit had some nice scenes with Pike-dwarfs

https://youtu.be/E64sIPJ9xWE

[umiman]

1. Ranged troops don't really cause any friendly fire in this game. They do in other total wars but in this one, you really only have to worry about friendly fire from artillery.

So go nuts with putting your gunners behind your lines.

2. If you have trouble with artillery positioning, try splitting your army apart. If you have a lot of artillery, it can work to have your armies in batteries like Napoleonic armies. Have them all cover each other so no matter who is fighting, there will always be artillery fire.

The AI doesn't really know how to handle multiple batteries so it'll usually only ever attack one with maybe one or two light Cav attacking another.

3. Handguns are 3x more powerful than crossbows. Armor piercing damage is true damage and works against everything. They melt enemies. Crossbows only advantage is that it shoots over people's heads.

This isn't that big of a deal as you can arrange your formations to have little gaps in between them for your guns to shoot through. Or you can position then sightly higher up. Again, they don't cause friendly fire so who cares. Additionally, they simplified formation shooting in this game so even if your handguns are in square formation, they still shoot at maximum effectiveness.

Also, if you use a little micro, a flanking barrage will completely rout an enemy.

If you don't believe how brutal handguns are, go into skirmish. Subterranean battle. Put 1 army of just handguns against 2 armies of any greenskins. Armor piercing is ridiculous in this game.

I suspect it might also have something to do with how crossbows also miss a lot when enemies are moving but guns don't.

[Tack]

I find dwarves wielding polearms to be frankly ridiculous.

Not to disagree, but The Hobit had some nice scenes with Pike-dwarfs

https://youtu.be/E64sIPJ9xWE

completely unrelated (I can't watch that at work sadly)
But I had a random chuckle that I referred to the WH fantasy race as "Dwarves" and you referred to the Tolkien race as "Dwarfs".

[Teneb]

Vague CA update on historical titles.

[scriver]

I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels

Somebody earlier posited that pikedpikedwarves was nonsensical, but I feel that tunnel warfare would be a strong reason for pikenererry. Imagine fighting in those cramped spaces and being faced with a literal wall of pikes. Can't manoeuvre around that.

[Mech#4]

I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels

Somebody earlier posited that pikedpikedwarves was nonsensical, but I feel that tunnel warfare would be a strong reason for pikenererry. Imagine fighting in those cramped spaces and being faced with a literal wall of pikes. Can't manoeuvre around that.

I agree with this, though I have to think that, if the tunnels are small enough, moving pikes through them would be like moving a couch through a house. Collapsible pikes would inhibit their sturdiness and goblins tend to use bows so a shield would be more use. I do believe dwarfs use wooden stakes though (and dragon's teeth-like walls), so planting those in front of their lines would have much the same deterring effect.

[Retropunch]

I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels

Somebody earlier posited that pikedpikedwarves was nonsensical, but I feel that tunnel warfare would be a strong reason for pikenererry. Imagine fighting in those cramped spaces and being faced with a literal wall of pikes. Can't manoeuvre around that.

I agree with this, though I have to think that, if the tunnels are small enough, moving pikes through them would be like moving a couch through a house. Collapsible pikes would inhibit their sturdiness and goblins tend to use bows so a shield would be more use. I do believe dwarfs use wooden stakes though (and dragon's teeth-like walls), so planting those in front of their lines would have much the same deterring effect.

You could have a pike that comes in two halves without sacrificing much of its sturdiness. As master metalsmiths, they should be able to build a locking mechanism that doesn't sacrifice strength. As a real world example, Naginata had a removable head with a bolt securing it in if I remember correctly.

In terms of defending against bows, I can imagine you might have a line of shield carriers at the front with pikes poking through the ranks (possibly), or more likely give the first line throw away shields which they can discard and pick up their spear when the enemy gets within range.

[Tack]

Having only just remembered that pikes come with big bulbous counterweights on the back, pikedwarves seem more feasible all of a sudden.

I still think it'd result in a whole lot of pikes pointing skywards if you aim for squishy bits or missing legs and getting stomped into the ground if you don't.

I mean more like dwarves carrying short-hafted halberds like you see the empire troops use. Sounds like it's asking for a bunch of front-heavy dwarves.

Or maybe I just like the idea of a line of dwarves, shields held high so the long legs can't batter down on them effectively, way up inside their range, going "hey-up hey-up" whilst they use heavy-handled axes to hew through the bottoms of shields, then greaves, then legs with no pause in the mulching machine.