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Author Topic: Wizard Chat  (Read 12190 times)

Kadzar

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2015, 04:04:36 pm »

That's what I meant by the something else.
The fact of the matter is, though, that if you for something like, say, runes, you will have to specialise to do anything other than dabble in them, as each carving/drawing/painting/etc. has to be very precise, otherwise you end up like me.
And about that worst thing that could happen, well...
Actually, you really don't want to know.
There's nothing wrong with doing a little dabbling to start with (so long as you don't get involved with any of the magic that automagically locks you out out others permanently), though I do agree that a mage has to eventually specialize if they want to be very good at anything.

For one, it's a matter of the sheer amount of practice you need to put in. For mortal martial arts, you'll never be a master if all you know is the basics of several different styles, so too is it with the magical arts. With the amount of time and effort I've put into Rune Scribing so far, I could nearly have a mortal medical degree by now (or actually I could have several if you count the time I've spent in timeless planes of existence). And I'm still nowhere near mastery of the art.

Then there's the fact that, to get really good at a magical art, you need to be mentally devoted to it. If you ever come across a highly-focused master pyromancer, you'll quickly learn they can do things with fire magic that other mages couldn't even dream of, and that's partially because they've spent so much time practicing with it, but also because they've tuned their minds to fire, so that it's as intuitive as breathing to them. When you get that focused on a magical art, it's not know for sure if that practitioner becomes unable to cast other kinds of magic, if they're simply mentally adverse to it, or if those two conditions are basically the same thing.

Of course, there's no need for you to get that highly-focused on a single art. If you wanted to do fire magic, for example, but also work with other elements, you could become an Elementalist. Or you could pair it with a completely different altogether, like, illusions or necromancy. You won't be able to do the same things as a highly-focused practitioner, but you gain more breadth to your abilities and might be able to unlock some synergistic uses or powers. And there's a lot of breadth and narrowness to the various arts, which can be mixed-and-matched at various levels of focus, and you're not really even limited to any sort of traditional schools of magic, as my friend Kimber the Ailuromancer can attest.

Ah, your ignorance shines through. There's a reason stereotypes and specialists exist: magic comes from the mind, and familiar, traditional images help it channel magic. Witches don't dress in orange leopards because it isn't conducive to their casting. This is also why you spend time preparing your materials, to have a better mental image of them.
And the worst thing that could have happened is opening a crack in the defenses of this plane, letting demonic armies breach through. Then, the legions of Celestia would have to march in our defense, turning the mortal plane into endless battlefield.
This is why you stay in school. Take an apprenticeship. It's worth it.
I will agree with you on why the traditional stereotypes and specialists exist, i.e., mental focus, but I don't agree that that means we need to keep to the tradition always, as different mental images are also useful. I wouldn't have been able to survive on the Hyperplanes of Traaldagur for three weeks in robes and a pointy hat instead of my akubra and duster, and it's not just because of the protective magic woven into them. All those times I should have died, the sheer image of them gave my magic a survivalist edge, so that my gameseeker bullets, for example, always flew true. And, besides for showing off, I will admit that the image of robes is very useful for rituals (I can't imagine how armored mages do them, frankly).

And I do agree that Fniff should try to seek proper magical training. There's a very good fae school that can be reached through Tara, if he can make it there. (There's other ways to the Fae Realm, but it's best to go through Tara if he can, since it will bring him closest to the place and he won't have to travel through the Fae Realm forests and deal with their time-warping properties).

Just out of curiosity, are there any other arcane artists who prefer to study fine art of illusions and bending minds of others into your will?
I've tried illusions a few times and found them useful, but they're a little hard for me since a) I Magelocks tend to make a lot of noise when you use them, and B) you can't really change a spell up when you cast it with a Magelock, either before or after it's been cast.
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Harbingerjm

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2015, 04:15:38 pm »

Depends what you were using the blood for and the way the summoning was structured. If as a power source, you might get part of the summoning to work, though the apparent result might bear no resemblance to the original ritual to the untrained eye. You wouldn't end up with the Higher Order Demon unless you had a pretty significant amount of power, though, so unless you were just a tiny bit short on the blood needed or were trying to use the blood to power a binding... The walls between planes are pretty tough to crack as it is, and most planes have pretty significant wards up to discourage traffic with the more... unsavoury planes. Angels, demons, whatever, they're all likely to cause problems for everyone.
Of course, if you were just using the blood as an appeaser/binder, or were on the same plane as the Demon in question to begin with, or were in an area/plane with particularly weak barriers/a significant power boost to summoning spells/a link with the plane the Demon is on/several other scenarios... Yeah, you're fucked.

Regarding the orange juice... not really my area of expertise (I would never waste juice like that), but it depends on how the ritual is set up. If it was originally strictly designed for blood, see above. If it was designed for juice, you should be fine, provided the juice is actually capable of fulfilling the role the ritual is using it for (which it really should be if whoever designing the ritual knew their stuff, unless it was a prank), otherwise see above. If the ritual doesn't care what is used, then much the same situation as if it was designed for the juice but without the safety net of whoever designed it presumably checking if juice would work in their design.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 04:22:24 pm by Harbingerjm »
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15:35   HugoLuman reads Harb his secret spaghetti recipe

My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2015, 04:22:49 pm »

And the worst thing that could have happened is opening a crack in the defenses of this plane, letting demonic armies breach through. Then, the legions of Celestia would have to march in our defense, turning the mortal plane into endless battlefield.
Don't be ridiculous. With no prepared implements or anything else to keep the spell going, as soon as he exploded the spell would fizzle out.
It was worst case scenario.

That's what I meant by the something else.
The fact of the matter is, though, that if you for something like, say, runes, you will have to specialise to do anything other than dabble in them, as each carving/drawing/painting/etc. has to be very precise, otherwise you end up like me.
And about that worst thing that could happen, well...
Actually, you really don't want to know.
There's nothing wrong with doing a little dabbling to start with (so long as you don't get involved with any of the magic that automagically locks you out out others permanently), though I do agree that a mage has to eventually specialize if they want to be very good at anything.

For one, it's a matter of the sheer amount of practice you need to put in. For mortal martial arts, you'll never be a master if all you know is the basics of several different styles, so too is it with the magical arts. With the amount of time and effort I've put into Rune Scribing so far, I could nearly have a mortal medical degree by now (or actually I could have several if you count the time I've spent in timeless planes of existence). And I'm still nowhere near mastery of the art.

Then there's the fact that, to get really good at a magical art, you need to be mentally devoted to it. If you ever come across a highly-focused master pyromancer, you'll quickly learn they can do things with fire magic that other mages couldn't even dream of, and that's partially because they've spent so much time practicing with it, but also because they've tuned their minds to fire, so that it's as intuitive as breathing to them. When you get that focused on a magical art, it's not know for sure if that practitioner becomes unable to cast other kinds of magic, if they're simply mentally adverse to it, or if those two conditions are basically the same thing.

Of course, there's no need for you to get that highly-focused on a single art. If you wanted to do fire magic, for example, but also work with other elements, you could become an Elementalist. Or you could pair it with a completely different altogether, like, illusions or necromancy. You won't be able to do the same things as a highly-focused practitioner, but you gain more breadth to your abilities and might be able to unlock some synergistic uses or powers. And there's a lot of breadth and narrowness to the various arts, which can be mixed-and-matched at various levels of focus, and you're not really even limited to any sort of traditional schools of magic, as my friend Kimber the Ailuromancer can attest.

And the worst thing that could have happened is opening a crack in the defenses of this plane, letting demonic armies breach through. Then, the legions of Celestia would have to march in our defense, turning the mortal plane into endless battlefield.
Don't be ridiculous. With no prepared implements or anything else to keep the spell going, as soon as he exploded the spell would fizzle out.

Wait, so what would happen if I tried to summon a Higher Order Demon without a large enough supply of blood? Would orange juice work?
What kind? From concentrate? Freshly squeezed? Organic? Sugar added?

-snip-
You make a good point, but that is rather advanced wizardry, making it a bad idea to start with. But one you've had a few years of practice. I do a bit of small tech spell development as a hobby, so I put on a tshirt and jeans, emulating the modern, young programmer.

Harbingerjm

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2015, 04:28:32 pm »

And the worst thing that could have happened is opening a crack in the defenses of this plane, letting demonic armies breach through. Then, the legions of Celestia would have to march in our defense, turning the mortal plane into endless battlefield.
Don't be ridiculous. With no prepared implements or anything else to keep the spell going, as soon as he exploded the spell would fizzle out.
It was worst case scenario.
In that it would mean that everyone involved in setting the defences for that plane was either incompetent or intentionally sabotaging their work, and that there would need to be a pretty hefty booster to let one first-time caster working with almost no power and no support structures for it accidentally blow straight through planar wards that most spend years and huge amount of resources trying to crack, I would hesitate to call it "worst case" but rather "inevitable given the huge amount of effort and planning that apparently went into it."
Seriously, where do you live, Y41K?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 04:30:33 pm by Harbingerjm »
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15:35   HugoLuman reads Harb his secret spaghetti recipe

BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2015, 04:40:44 pm »

Ah, a fellow Rune-Scriber! How wonderful. I haven't had anybody to talk about Runes with since my old teacher died.
So, what do you think of the combination of the Lesser Enlargement Rune and Greater Compacting Rune?
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2015, 07:12:49 pm »

And the worst thing that could have happened is opening a crack in the defenses of this plane, letting demonic armies breach through. Then, the legions of Celestia would have to march in our defense, turning the mortal plane into endless battlefield.
Don't be ridiculous. With no prepared implements or anything else to keep the spell going, as soon as he exploded the spell would fizzle out.
It was worst case scenario.
In that it would mean that everyone involved in setting the defences for that plane was either incompetent or intentionally sabotaging their work, and that there would need to be a pretty hefty booster to let one first-time caster working with almost no power and no support structures for it accidentally blow straight through planar wards that most spend years and huge amount of resources trying to crack, I would hesitate to call it "worst case" but rather "inevitable given the huge amount of effort and planning that apparently went into it."
Seriously, where do you live, Y41K?
I just like to air on the side of caution. Also, I don't trust the government to do a good job of anything.

flabort

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2015, 07:37:11 pm »

So I found those old suits of armor I forged with the spellhammer. I was doing fine, binding spirits into the suits, but one of the bindings went a bit wrong.

I think the sun might have risen while I was binding the last one, either that or a witch's familiar set it's feet on the moon. I can't be sure. But the spirit bound to the armor wasn't a blank soul. I think it was in the genie family, but can't be sure of that either.

So the inside of the armor, instead of remaining empty and two eyes glowing behind the facegaurd like usual, immediately filled with a red-hot flame that seemed more solid and alive than my most lively subjects. It then found my old spellhammer that I used to make the armor in the first place and started forging more armor suits. It still responds to my commands so I think it's loyal to me, but can anyone advise me on this?
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Harbingerjm

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2015, 07:41:44 pm »

I just like to air on the side of caution. Also, I don't trust the government to do a good job of anything.
Who said anything about the government? Single nations aren't usually in command of the stability of entire planes, and planes that fuck up their planar barriers to the point that some random guy waving a stick around and chanting can summon infinite demons tend to have a life expectancy of precisely fuck all.

[No rest for old bones]
Ready yourself for combat, prepare fallbacks, then command it to destroy itself. It might still be bound to obey you, but if it's creating more who may not be then at the very least it possesses initiative, which given you don't know whether it's loyal or not, or even exactly what it is...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 07:43:42 pm by Harbingerjm »
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flabort

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2015, 07:48:58 pm »

Well, the armor suits it's making are empty and unpossessed... And fairly sturdy and useful enchantments, at that. I think binding more spirits to them won't result in the same error, I'll find out more later when the sun sets, so it's not creating more of itself, just more vessels.

If I can keep it loyal I'd like to keep it alive. It seems useful and it doesn't mind stopping it's work if I ask it to do something else. It's just creative when it's idle.

REALLY creative. That's one badass looking runeblade it made; more of a greataxe, really, and big enough for a giant to use but light enough that I can lift it without anything but my flight magic. Heh, imagine that, giants being clever enough to use a runeblade, silly flaming armor spirit.

If I have to destroy it I'm ready, of course.
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The Cyan Menace

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Harbingerjm

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2015, 07:54:49 pm »

They're not animate yet as far as you can tell. It may just be planning to build up sufficient force to take you by surprise. My suggestion remains to destroy it now, and then if you desire to investigate what went wrong and seek to reproduce the process controllably.
Mind, it's probably not what I would do, but it is my best advice.
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Armok

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2015, 08:49:56 pm »

If I were you, I'd tell it to make a coffin lockable from the outside (specify that it should be unable to break out) and then lay inside and count to a hundred billion aloud. Like, RIGHT away before it can create more stuff.
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Shadestyle

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2015, 08:52:42 pm »

Ok, Need some advice, I've been at this for a while with an old rival of mine, and to make a long story short, I am stuck drilling holes in bricks which are then turned into tiny hellmouths to the bottom of the blood ocean. My problem is, I need a stable way to:

A. Mass produce these blood weeping bricks for a castle wing to one up that neighbor of mine.

B. Fine a good place to portal the blood when it gets into the disposal pipe i have them leaking into.

Any Suggestions that won't get me in trouble with any of the higher planes?

As for Part A. I have been doing it by hand, using Ruby dust and peyote for the Hellmouths, and some classic red bricks from my home depot.


Snip-

Don't reason with it. Just shell out some cash for a basic Spirit Communicator. Should be able to talk to it directly, and most of them come with instructions for Forcing them to tell unaltered complete truths.

And as a side question, what is your opinion on hellbugs? I like the ones that leak through the bricks from the blood ocean, but my rival might mistake that as a design flaw.
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flabort

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2015, 09:22:51 pm »

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

I think it's too late to kill it. I named it Heph. Heph likes the name. Locking it away I could do, but I couldn't bear to leave it in a small coffin. I do have an unused wing in my lair in which I could seal Heph up until the time is right.

I'll get a communicator. I have one somewhere in these dusty old labyrinths. Probably next to the... uh... I'll keep that secret, thanks, but I think I know where I left it. Probably easier to buy a new one.

Hellbugs? Eh, they're not very effective as a defense measure, but they are good for scaring off certain other monsters. Probably best if they get swept into the drainage portal if you let them in, that way you won't have an infestation on your hands but there will be enough to scare or attack someone or something that goes down your hall.

As for mass production, get a skeleton to do it for you. Give it instructions to recruit any idle skeletal minions to aid it in the process, but also to stop itself and the others it recruited once there is enough. If you don't have any skeletons, I'll loan you some.
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The Cyan Menace

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Kadzar

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2015, 09:51:06 pm »

Ah, a fellow Rune-Scriber! How wonderful. I haven't had anybody to talk about Runes with since my old teacher died.
So, what do you think of the combination of the Lesser Enlargement Rune and Greater Compacting Rune?
Well, to tell the truth, I got into it to make rune bullets and don't use it for much else other than enchanting some gear here or there, so I may not be able to offer as invigorating a discussion as your old master.

But, as for the question you posed, you're saying if you just inscribed those two runes together? I certainly haven't tried that, but I imagine it would most likely have the same effect as a Lesser Compacting Rune, with about a three percent chance it might make the object in question slightly denser than normal. Have you actually tested it out?

I very muchly prefer manual, unimplemented casting. Much simpler, looks way better. Many would say that casting manually makes it harder to channel, but you can fix that by enchanting an object to channel magic for you. For me, that object is my axe. The main problem with this is you have to carry that object on your body constantly in case you need to cast quickly, and most people lose small objects eventually, and larger ones tend to get physically tiring.
Ah here goes another newbie reinventing the wheel. What do you think the first implements were, exactly? Please, spare yourself spending decades discovering focusing on the object channeling for you dramatically improves efficiency, that putting it inside the locus of weaving further amplifies it, and refining the shape and enchantments until you have a bastard of a wand and runeblade except centuries behind the stat of the art.
I may be new, but I'm not a noob.
I'm not trying to use my axe as one uses a wand or a staff- I'm going for a completely different road, which is enchanting an object to channel magic, then binding it to yourself with multiple powerful enough spells that it becomes a part of you. Simply put, you are your implement.
I don't mean to be patronizing, but that sounds like a classic Spirit Binding. It's actually quite an impressive feat for one so new to the arts, but it's nothing new.
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Fniff

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Re: Wizard Chat
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2015, 09:59:44 pm »

Man, everyone likes sniping newbie wizards. It's like Counterstrike but in real life and with less guns.
Speaking of, wizards and guns: opinions? I heard fun things happen when gun nuts and magic blend.
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