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Author Topic: Endgame armor  (Read 7821 times)

vjmdhzgr

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 01:41:48 am »

That one is the correct one. The opposite, or pure adamantine, is the common misconception.

I tested this one some in arena mode.

Steel > Adamantine > Iron

It doesn't seem to matter what kind of weapon the testing dwarves are armed with. Silver warhammers, iron battleaxes, silver whips - all about the same. Everyone got grandmaster skills, a candy chain shirt, a copper shield, and then either steel or candy hard armor consisting of two boots, two gauntlets, a helm, greaves and a breastplate.

I tried it again a few times with zero skill.

Adamantine ≈ Steel

What I think is going on here is that high armor user helps offset the weight of the steel. Remove that and the deathmatches between squads of ten are much closer and less predictable. I'd need to do a bunch more trials and make spreadsheets to prove it but I suspect that adamantine might actually be very slightly better than steel until they get to high levels.

So don't cry if you made a ton of either adamantine or steel armor.
This is incredibly strange and I want to begin investigations on how this is even a possibility. Steel's highest stats are impact and compressive fracture at 2,520,000. Its lowest strain at yield stats where lower is better is shear, torsion, and bending at 215. All of adamantine's yield and fracture stats are 5,000,000 twice that of steel's highest stats, most of steel's stats are lower. Then all of adamantine's strain at yield stats are at 0, which is definitely lower than 215. Now I could be wrong, but I had thought that armor effectiveness is based on all those shear, torsion, and whatever stats so how steel is possibly better than adamantine baffles me.
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Magistrum

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2015, 08:22:11 am »

Adamantine is not so good against blunt, that's what he is saying.
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2015, 11:12:55 am »

But that's obvious and not really the issue. NonconsensualSurgerys says that iron battleaxes were used, which are definitely not blunt weapons.
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Valrandir

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 11:50:34 am »

Most Excellent™

Wrong thread, somehow.

Ruhn

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 12:46:45 pm »

Does weight of the armor help to absorb the blunt weapon impact damage, making steel better against hammers?
Candy is obviously better vs shearing and stabbing weapons.

Centigrade

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2015, 01:01:48 pm »

Edged weapon attacks which cannot bypass armour material are calculated as bludgeoning attacks.
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NonconsensualSurgery

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2015, 05:45:13 pm »

Edged weapon attacks which cannot bypass armour material are calculated as bludgeoning attacks.

And basically nothing in the unmodded game will directly penetrate steel plate armor. All testing dwarves died of crushing injuries.

I am not completely confident that *nothing* can actually pierce steel right now so there may be circumstances where adamantine > steel.
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Magistrum

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2015, 05:48:06 pm »

Yeah, some spoilers can pierce steel but not adamantine.
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Centigrade

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2015, 09:13:16 am »

Yeah, some spoilers can pierce steel but not adamantine.

Attacks which cannot pierce adamantine are converted to bludgeoning damage which easily bypasses the density of adamantine to break bones and otherwise inflict crushing injuries; therefore, having a rigid layer of steel provides superior overall protection. You still have a layer of adamantine to intercept those rarely encountered edged attacks which can pierce steel.

Also, a quick point of order: saying "spoilers" in a discussion about mechanics is pointlessly obtuse. Either you have useful information you wish to contribute to the inquiry, or you do not. Ambiguity is not helpful when discussing optimisation.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 09:17:26 am by Centigrade »
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Magistrum

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 09:24:20 am »

Divine metals. What's wrong ? Well, they aren't much of a spoiler anyway...
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Uggh

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2015, 10:50:08 am »

Confusing title; it's always endgame in dwarf fortress.
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Centigrade

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2015, 05:47:43 pm »

Divine metals. What's wrong ? Well, they aren't much of a spoiler anyway...
Is it possible for a demon, forgotten beast, or titan to be composed of divine metals, or for a were-thing or other weapon-wielding entity to spawn with a divine metal implement?
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2015, 06:35:38 pm »

As far as I know, they're divine for a reason: only angels will wield them.
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Aslandus

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2015, 10:56:34 pm »

As far as I know, they're divine for a reason: only angels will wield them.
I love the narrative that brings up
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For once, I'm using the spoiler mark to actually cover potentially spoilery stuff rather than covering up large pictures...

vjmdhzgr

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Re: Endgame armor
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2015, 02:08:57 am »

As far as I know, they're divine for a reason: only angels will wield them.
I love the narrative that brings up
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For once, I'm using the spoiler mark to actually cover potentially spoilery stuff rather than covering up large pictures...
Except that angels are actually the servants of demons pretty much. The term angels isn't very fitting, but I believe it is the official one. In world generation it's gods that set the demons free, then I suppose part of the freeing process requires a slab with the demon's name to be created. The slab can't be destroyed as it would banish the demon back to hell, and knowing the true name of a demon allows anybody to command it, so the slab gets locked in a vault with angels guarding it. Some of that is guessing like that a slab with the demon's name is required for the summoning process, but that's the only reason I can think of for it existing. So, if the angels are actually like how angels are normally depicted, they're placed there by a god to help ensure the demon stays there so it can properly do whatever it was the god wanted the demon to do. Really some of the reasons are ridiculous. It's possible to get the legends entry "after contemplating pregnancy [deity name] helped [demon name] escape from the underworld" or something like that.
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Its a feature. Impregnating booze is a planned tech tree for dwarves and this is a sneak peek at it.
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